[YVerloc]

I'm with Balistic, Andy and Eyewoo.

The problem isn't lack of dedication. The problem, Matthew, is that many (most) opther artists don't share your opinion about the artistic process. You have gotten the notion from somewhere that churning out a lot of sketches is the way to develop. Everyone is defferent etc, but I think many of us don't view this as a balanced diet.

In fact, I view it as an unhealthy fetish that is stunting your growth. Here is a dose of brutal honesty: you get a lot of people telling you that you are getting a lot better. It's only sort-of true. You are getting better - it's true. But for the amount of effort you put into your own development your mileage is sucking.

Eat a healthy and balanced diet. Lead a balanced life. And in your art, take a balanced approach. Endless sketching is not the way. It is holding you back. "Think more, paint less" (Spooge quote)

And don't be a baby when nobody else want to join your 'let's beat a dead horse' club. Would anyone follow you if you were a fitness guru and your advice was to do a thousand chin-ups a day and nothing else?

Reality check
/out

[jinnseng]

I'm going to stick up for Matthew because it really sounds like he's getting attacked. I give credit to Matthew for atleast trying to bring some new ideas (or rehashed, whatever) to the forum. He's trying to make it a place to learn. But it obviously seems the majority here is not really interested. The forum is basically all about the speed painting thread with the occasional post of work in a different thread where everyone tells the artists how "cool" it is. If you're work isn't good enough it will be ignored or a few asses will leave some lame comments. This totally discourages any type of learning environment and that leads us back to the problem. Matthew has been such an active guy around here. Even if you're not a fan of his art or ideas, you have to give him some respect. It's a shame to see it come to this.

[AndyT]

jinnseng: Do you have an example of lame comments by asses?
Thought that is what happens at Eatpoo all the time.

It is true that praise at Sijun still means something.
It wouldn't if every sketchdump was awarded with lots of "amazing stuff! you like my stuff, too?" replies.

What people write here has nothing to do with lack of respect. Attacks would have a different tone.
Where is Matthew's respect for what 90% of the active Sijun members think?
Matthew can still go for a compromise if he wants to.

Sijun as a learning environment?
Where are advanced artists that invest time in helping others ... writing critiques and things like that?
Activities don't take off without them.

Anybody can dig up reference photos and copy them.
You can't do that properly as a beginner, though.
Beginners should start with getting proportions right before they tackle value and color.

Matthew's practice thread idea is just not an offer that is interesting enough.

There have been great learning activities for advanced artists in the past.
But most somewhat recent tries to start something like that didn't take off.

Personally I think that fun activities for advanced artists are what makes sense at Sijun.

What's the public opinion?

How many people are interested in a project that has to do with working on the foundation?
How many people are interested in a themed thread activity ... Draw Club like?
How many people want both (or more)?
How many people think speedpainting is enough?
How many people want something completely different?
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[Mikko K]

Matthew,

Here's a suggestion. Do something themed in the speedy, like a painting of a dinosaur or a jedi. If people like it, they can play off from that idea. It has happened before, people were making paintings out of baseball players etc.. It feels too forced to contribute daily in a special thread. It can also be impossible to a lot of people..

Also, if you say that "use 30 hours to finish a piece for what purpose?", you could say "why practise?" too.. You can go very far with the fine art / realistic painting discussion, but if you wanted to do surrealistic landscapes in your own style, could it help if you had done a few 'finished' realistic ones first?

Artists who are working commercially have to face other people's opinions of what is good/finished/sketchy/ugly and a lot of times it can lead to bad decisions by their own artistic standards. That's one reason to try and finish more, because it seems to me that sometimes making quick sketches just removes a lot of the thinking because you're forgiven, you can always say it's just a sketch.

Maybe most people here have more interest in illustration than fine art that stands for itself.. and speedpaintings won't make it to magazine covers easily. Uh, I'm probably not making sense at all.. just keep it up Matthew.

[Naeem]

Matthew> I know what you're saying. It was obvious that it lacked attention.

For the next thread, I'd sign my name in. So you have me as a member.
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[jinnseng]

Hi AndyT
The one example that I can recall is this thread.http://forums.sijun.com/viewtopic.php?p=378352&highlight=#378352
Atleast the artist didn't give up.

As far as places where advanced artists are helping beginners? I'm not saying that is what sinjun needs, but i'm pointing out that is what a lot of people are hoping for in an art forum. Go take a look at cgtalk, specifically the Art theories forum. Check out the sketch form, there is an artistic anatomy section there that is being run speficially to help others out with anatomy. I would link them, but I have respect for sinjun and don't want to link directly to other forums.

Sinjun is what it is. It's not wanting to change. I think thats why this whole thread has gone from a simple suggestion about starting a thread to this kind of sqwabble. Oh well.

[AndyT]

[Capt. Fred]

I like ballistic's Finished image idea.

We can do a CG challenge thing here, i don't care if there aren't any prizes.

Somebody make it happen

[viag]

agree with capt fred , so we can see different things and artist than cgtalk challenge
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[Capt. Fred]

hurrah!

[gLitterbug]

I just saw this thread and felt the need to reply, even though it is going down already. But it is just welling up too much emotion to let it pass.

Matthew, right after you came here and lots of people, including me, didn�t exactly like you. Your art wasn�t any good nor did your attitude seem to be.

Then it all changed, you seemed to work hard, listen to people, try to make this place active and all. I bet it gained you big respect from lots of members here. I know that I thought way higher of you and even admired you for your dedication. With your post now, most of that is gone. You�re like a highly decorated general admired by a soldier, who then has to find out his idol is a whiney little bitch in real life who just fell up to his status by accident.

You seem to want the respect and power of leadership. Thing is that it�s not your art thats not good enough to make others follow you, but yourself. If you want others to respect and follow you, lead by example, keep your course whatever happens, show strength and keep the weak moments to yourself.

What I have written might offend you, just like things others said did. Truth is though, that not everyone else is wrong and needs to apologize, but rather you. You disappointed and insulted with your post and if you were standing next to me in real life I think I couldn�t resist giving you your deserved slap in the face to snap out of whatever you are in right now.

[Capt. Fred]

Jeez!

[Matthew]

I think some people might have the wrong impression of me, who I am
and why I post.
If you ask me there is not much to say about me but I do have this passion for art and for a long time it used to include the same passion for this place. A place where you could interact with fellow artists and friends and learn a whole lot, and yes this I did from many members and I will always be greatful for the wisdome words from spooge and captain and many others.

As many others I have had my fair share of pain, people letting me down and people telling me things that I cannot do.
Threats and death-threats has been given to me before so this is nothing new to me and I have also been slapped a couple of times, been knocked down and I have had 3 concusions. Nowadays I would probably turn the other cheek around though if someone were to slap me and then let it slide.
Tired of arguing, fighting and macho talk. Doesn't lead anywhere.

The most correct description in this thread would be Sumaleth comparing me to a Coke bottle, this true and I am a dramatic person but this I have shaped up in me older years, as what I think anyway. But then again I have a lot of other syndromes to work with so I am not perfect and will probably never be, never expected to be that either.

A post like this that I am writing here is pretty useless and if I were to regret anything about this thread it would be me not knowing about balistic's nerve dissorder. I apologize about this balistic, it was never meant as a personal thing this thread. I hope you are ok now.
I used to have a back injury way back and it was something that held me back for 5-6 years, could barely tie my shoes and the pain was with me always so I know what it feels like not being able to function properly.
keep it up balistic.

ok ok, back to what I was gonna type about/////
What I was stating with this thread was that it isn't enough attention when it comes to themed threads or activities. Just look at the thread Petri created, most people replied perhaps in his poll, it is the same everytime.
I wonder if Capt.Fred's thread will work?
Many have signed up for it but I wonder how many that will post later on. I guess that is up to the future.
And about everything else: I have never claimed to be perfect or being a leader, being someone you should look up to. Don't think, if I recall right, that I have been braggin about my art-pieces.
Neither have I posted to show off, I was so damn happy just to be involved with something like this and I can tell you it really took a lot of my time way back when I was a newbie here in Sijun.
I was being flamed still I posted though and this wasn't because to show my art, it was because it felt nice to be involved and be a part of something like Sijun. To me it was amazing to interact with people from the states and other places.
But then again this is the unfair part and the thing about what I have been debating about ever since I started here. People telling you there has to be some sort of proffessional approach to be able to post.
Maybe Sijun was about this in the beginning but it certainly isn't nowadays and if this is something a forum should live up to only old Masters should be allowed to post. Well hell, let us dig up Turner for the hell of it and make him post here, maybe he would fit the sijun standards, or maybe not.

Then again it can be questioned whether or why my concern was about the survival of sijun or me trying to save sijun. Yes, this might be stupid and I can see now that Sijun will survive, or wait, maybe not.
Cause it has to have some guys and or girls being obligated to do something like a themed thread or maybe a discussion like this which seems to be popular in Sijun, just as long there is someone to bash everything is funny and then only then some members will dwell in their smartness. Their apporach of telling someone when and or if something is stupid. Or just the plain u suck would work too, eh?

This thread was made with Dictatorship and it was my last approach to something like this hence I understood there would be arguement.
It was never made as an approach of me telling you guys that you are lazy. that wasn't the point, I asked and wanted dedication. Without dedication everything dies. This I have seen many times. From musical bands that I have been in and other areas.
If only one person is dedicated things will not work.
I guess it was argued above about my dedication and my dedication in my summer practise thread. I asked for dedication and if someone would have said, -"I will do them all" I would have tagged along.
But also I have this problem about digital cause I cannot combine my oils and digital, but I gotta tell you when I switched to Painter previosuly it is starting to look better.

The curse of an artist is to start over all the time.
I have just noticed that I have been approaching my oils the wrong way. Been totally missing the point with layer tecnique.
My new teachers have taught me a lot in only almost one week, this mostly about tecnique.
And this is the interesting part cause with art it really is a real solid learning process but the need of bending rules should always be there, I think that is an important rule.
I wonder where it comes from that people think I am some sort of a general that wants to show off, I repeat I don't think I know a lot about art, I just like to paint and if people wanna comment on my pieces that's ok.
If they do not like my art that is ok too.
However though I had a big problem with this when people told me that I had improved, I did not used to like that kind of comment cause in some weird way I thought it would hold me back.
Pretty stupid I guess but I have been looking for a strong personal style and when I do sometimes post a piece similar to pthers style with a soldier or whatever and people telling me that I have improved, it somehow feels wrong.
Not what I am looking for but as an artist you have to try to get out of old bad habits hence why I am always trying to add something new I haven't been doing before, or maybe imitate someone else. Could help to get out of the bad habit.

A lot of reading this so make it a weekend reading if you want to.
All in all, I never asked for the attention and if someone expected me to be a certain way that is up to them and I am only a human.
If I am a moderator can be discussed, I was questioned to join the moderator team way back when I helped Arno out with the forum, I did accept but he didn't reply me that much though and that is another part of the problem with this forum.
It goes around unnoticed by supervision and someone has to accept responsibility for things concerning this forum.
We were hacked that time when the interface was changed, I wonder whom will accept responsibility the next time that happens.

This will be my last post in a real long time in this forum, maybe I will return or maybe I will not.
The forum is heading one direction and Matthew is heading another direction.
Now you probably want me to relax but I can tell you I am really relaxed concerning forums nowadays. This have just become a bad habit to post and that is what makes it so difficult to stop my posting. Like an alcoholic trying to quit the beer I need to cut down on this forum airtime.
I do not feel the same as I used to regarding this place, just feel a stupid wibe from here, too bad cause I really loved this place.

Sincerely
Matthew (Mattias)


Impaler, I think I will hold my promise now.

Capt.Fred, Thank you for making the Sijun challenge, themed threads can be a heavy burden though so carry it well.

keep up everyone

[balistic]

No worries Matt. Hope to see you around.
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brian.prince|light.comp.paint

[Max]

Hey Matthew, I hope you are not serious about never coming back...
We had alot of fun here at Sijun. I would really miss you and your art.
I am totally serious about that!! Please don't go forever.
Maybe you just need a break. My attitude towards Sijun is weird too.
Sometimes it feels more like an addiction to come here - then I need a short break and voila - it feels better!
Hehehe, I know you will never forget this place since you were so involved, and you will come back I am sure
and you will post art again!!!

Keep it up Matthew!

[Ranath]

I do agree that there's some people in sijun who want to bash everything just for the sake of bashing and their own "smartness" (like what we saw when some random guy advertized an art contest, even the art showed was bashed even though it was pretty good).

However, that's not a reason to leave. You gotta learn to live with idiots as well. You're bound to meet them in real life anyway.

[Lunatique]

This might sound a bit strange, but it's how things looked to me after reading this thread--it reads like a relationship that wasn't meant to be, although one of the involved party kept trying to make it work.

From my perspective, I think Matthew should look around the internet for more like-minded folks. I think Matthew will feel more at home in a forum where he doesn't have to constantly feel like he's going against the grain and his efforts are not appreciated. I don't know why Matthew has never considered the fact that he might have been preaching to the wrong choir all this time, and that Sijun will only try to convert him instead of following his preachings. In fact, many of us have tried to convert Matthew over the years to our way of thinking, and all of our efforts were brushed off--Matthew knows what he wanted, and what he wanted was different from our collective ideal. I mean, he's probably the only person in the history of Sijun that refused to listen to even Spooge. So, all we can do is to give him our blessings, wish him the best, and hope that one day he'll achieve what he's after.

Seriously, Matthew, there are so many forums out there--Sijun isn't the only one. Have you actually tried to participate in other forums and see if you like them better? And I also wonder, for all your thirst for themed threads, activities..etc, why aren't you participating in booming communities like the Daily Sketch thread at cgtalk? That is right up your alley. Why aren't you participating in the activities at conceptart? What about eatpoo? What about gfxartist?