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Topic : "Philosophy campfire #2" |
Chris member
Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 746 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 7:57 am |
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Ragnarok: Exactly how I feel as well. It has a good place in the fiction section. I am not saying I don't like the bible, I like reading some of the stories, some remind me of dungeons and dragon lol, river of blood, etc.  |
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Count Zero member
Member # Joined: 12 Nov 1999 Posts: 586 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 8:56 am |
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Interpretation.
The Bible says God loves all people.
The Bible says God hates homosexuals.
The Bible says that white men are supreme (yeah, some dumbass racists actually believe this. Odd considering that Jesus wasn't exactly a westerner, or very white.)
The Bible says that the world will end in 2001.
The Bible says heaven is open to all people.
Etc, etc. ad infinitum.
"God works in mysterious ways" is the most commonly used argument for all the misery on this earth. We are not supposed to understand...
The death and misery that exist is not absolute proof of the lack of a god, in my opinion. As I mentioned earlier, if there is a God, (his/her/)its motives and reasons MUST be way over the comprehension of a mere human. |
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-- Transcendent -- member
Member # Joined: 12 Nov 2000 Posts: 251 Location: Somewhere, Sometime, Somehow
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 9:23 am |
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I just dropped by to make another comment. First of all, evolution does not disprove anything said in the bible. Remember my argument, we learn by observation, so we can only assume that an order of events would have occurred for reality to reach this state, but we wouldn't know what was order of events, because we weren't there. (yup, I hate using bromides, but this one came to mind)
Perhaps if we gave it enough time, we could evolve a cell into an animal, and if we gave enough energy, matter through light. Perhaps if there was a "big bang", the universe would have been in the state it is today. Why not ? But we don't know if there was a big bang. Creation was a miracle, not a myth.
I think there's enough evidence around us to prove the existence of God ... quantum mechanics, relativity, all to go to show that there is another realm above this "mechanical" universe ... perhaps expanding the arguments in that direction would be more productive.
Sahar2k, m tired of my silly and irrelevant light and darkness analogy, we cannot see in total darkness, and neither can we see in total light. Go think about it for a moment or two, I'm sure the answer will come to you.
Chris, I have read somewhere that people might be given a chance to accept God after they die if they hadn't heard about God, I could be wrong, odiously, oh, and just because a blind man can't see light doesn't mean light exists. If everyone was blind, would we believe there was sight ? Food for thought.
Enough said. You must be really bored by now. |
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-- Transcendent -- member
Member # Joined: 12 Nov 2000 Posts: 251 Location: Somewhere, Sometime, Somehow
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 9:30 am |
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Oh, and count, a last question, where does the bible say the world ends in 2001 ? Wouldn't there be 10 years of peace before the apocalypse ? Er, yeah. Ten years of peace. Now. Ahem ... that makes no sense at all. |
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Chris member
Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 746 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:32 am |
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I have read somewhere that people might be given a chance to accept God after they die if they hadn't heard about God, I could be wrong, odiously, oh, and just because a blind man can't see light doesn't mean light exists. If everyone was blind, would we believe there was sight? |
What is it with you and darkness?
Correct if we were all blind, sight would be a mystery to us. Not unless it was proven by one of our 5 sences (sight, smell, touch, taste, hear) which is one thing I mentioned above. God doesn't exist cause it hasn't been proven, only the belief he does from the fear of death.
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Wouldn't there be 10 years of peace before the apocalypse? |
See that is definetly something added later into the bible after countless failures to predict the end of the world, someone added that POS. The bible in your homes (Christians) is not the original bible that was written back in the day. It has been edited, re-written countless times, I know it, and somewhere in your head you should too. |
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Chris member
Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 746 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:42 am |
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We are not supposed to understand... |
I don't think so. I think in time we can understand anything that comes our way.
Did you know we only use 10% of our brain for thinking process (memories, calculations, etc.) Einstein was said to use 12% and look what came of him. All the stuff we got from him. I mean he almost figured out how to make a human travel the speed of light, with ONLY 2% more?!?
Did you know also that in 50 years, with technology assistant, we will double that campasity? 20% of our brain that can be used to calculate, remember. The human averages a life of 72 yrs old (going male here) in 50 years it is to be, AVERAGE, 112 by the rate we are going.
In time immortality will be common, you might think that is crazy, but we are figuring out what makes us age and I'll tell you after reading countless articles, it won't take us long to figure it out.
What will we believe in then, after immortality arrives? Will there still be fear of death?
Of course I am talking out of our lives, but I will be 70 in 50 years, and quite frankly I predict those things mentioned above to come more quickly after the 25year mark.
Just ranting...I'll probably get some comments out of those statements  |
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Chris member
Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 746 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:47 am |
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Ok and one more thing.
If we are to spend immortality in heaven or hell FOREVER...what the hell are we doing down here. What is life, a freakin trial?
Is religion then the stand which I am standing on while in trial? I just don't know why we just don't end up there, cause I don't wanna waste my time down here if I could just go up there and be done with it |
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galen member
Member # Joined: 13 Nov 2000 Posts: 172 Location: a computer.
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 1:45 pm |
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mmmmm a philosophy topic..i havent seen one of these in a longggg time.... (i'm an ex-frequenter of the Counter-Strike forums...back in the day)
anyways, i think to define what god is you have to define parts of his nature.
apparently, god is thought to be omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent...but the definitions of these words is flawed, for example...
omnipotent = all powerful. theoretically, one could do ANYTHING and ANYTIME. but this is impossible - can god create a rock he cannot move? if so then he is not omnipotent. if he cannot create this rock in the first place, the same rule applies.
so, first and foremost god CANNOT be omnipotent.
secondly, the definition of omniscient = all seeing, all knowing. now if this hold's true, then there is no such thing as free will. since god knows all, he can see every individual's future, and since he knows what you're going to do all the time, you HAVE to do it, or god is wrong - and god is infallable. so secondly, god cannot be omniscient.
now, as for omnipresence - this is the only one of the three i believe god can actually do. lets say for a moment that god is not a corporeal form, but rather an all surrounding life force....
i dont know if this makes any sense, but to me its what i have used to define the nature of god, if he does exist.
here's a question for you: what if god didn't choose to create? what if he was FORCED to??
------------------
or you can dream of the frog legs sitting in the church, with the glass and the sand by my footsteps |
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Count Zero member
Member # Joined: 12 Nov 1999 Posts: 586 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 3:18 pm |
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"Oh, and count, a last question, where does the bible say the world ends in 2001 ? Wouldn't there be 10 years of peace before the apocalypse ? Er, yeah. Ten years of peace. Now. Ahem ... that makes no sense at all."
So you actually missed my point that the Bible is open to INTERPRETATION. Do you not understand? That was the whole idea of my previous post, it doesn't say that specifically ANYWHERE but still people believe in stuff like that, because they see it clearly between the lines.
There was a shit load of people expecting the second coming of Christ during the shift of 1999-2000, if you happen to remember. And they claimed it to be right there, in the Bible. That's probably the same part where it says for the Jehova's Witnesses that Heaven is already full of people.
I personally don't believe in any coming Apocalypse, at least the one referred to in the Bible.
My apologies for being so unclear... |
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shahar2k member
Member # Joined: 01 Jun 2000 Posts: 867 Location: Oak Park CA USA
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 5:16 pm |
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on light and darkness:
well, we know light exists because we know where it is, and what it does. there are ways of proving where a photon is or how fast it's going (heh only one or the other though, uncertanty principle)
we know of things like Gamma rays even though we can't DIRECTLY sense them, because we've come to understand them indirectly... the Curries (Marie Curie+ husband) discovered radium, and found out something in it kills, later on, radiation was discovered as the cause and better ways were discovered to uncover radiation. so in a way, is something can't be experienced directly we can still prove it through it's interaction with our observed world (even several layers deep, such as theories that go into the inner working of electrons, and attempt to infer the nature of matter)
there is quite a bit of proof that at least some of the events in the bible occured, the flood is present in several religion's stories, and historical digs have uncovered many ancient cities. however the miracles and acts of god discussed, are to me, as credible as UFO sightings today, they might have something of truth, or not, but people are EXTREMELY open to their imagination.
as for the nature of god, well I didn't say that my "Prime philosophical unit" is god, only that it is to me the ultimate knowable resource, kind of like the holy grail of understanding. The Theological god, is something I will deny as quickly as I can, mostly because I have experienced no observed effects, or proof, either directly or indirectly. I cannot disprove it, but I can definitely disprove any proof that has been presented to me up to now.
however one thing I won't deny is people's freedom to believe what they want. as I hope it is not denied to me, feith holds a person's paranoya at bay, it helps you overcome those moments when you realize your own insignificance in the face of the mechanical universe. |
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Chris member
Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 746 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 7:46 pm |
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No, the brain uses 10% for the actually thinking process that you want to actually figure out. Like a math problem put in front of you. Yes, some portion of the brain is to reproduce neurons, etc. But a lot of them are intact for the rest of our lives. It is only when we get older they start to die off and don't get reproduced, hense losing of memory
The other percentages is used for unconsious thinking. This is like the beating of your heart, breathing.
Next is your motion thinking. Like Walking, running, even keeping your balance.
To go back to einstein here is a quote after the major study conducted on his brain.
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They found that the area of the brain responsible for mathematical reasoning was 15% larger in Einstein versus 91 other people of normal intelligence. |
That extra space made available more neurons to travel along the paths and add more functionality in the mathmatical part of our brain (pariental lobe), thus being able to use an average of 2% more mathmatical thought then others.  |
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shahar2k member
Member # Joined: 01 Jun 2000 Posts: 867 Location: Oak Park CA USA
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Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2000 10:18 pm |
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Einstein sucked in math... seriously, the man could never really do math, he was great with theory, but he always needed help proving his mathematics.
as for that, I don't really know how the brain works, but from what I do know a neuron's construction is almost 90% Axon (the wires leading impulses in and out of it) so I don't know what that 10% estimate about the brain comes from.
that 10% could allso apply to the part of the brain we use to think, in which case, is it a fixed area? if it isn't, than maybe diffrent areas of the brain are used for diffrent functions, and as such, no more than 10% is used at any time.
I'm familiar with the 10% statement, but I don't think that because of that we can ever teach an animal with even 50% of the brain complexity to use 20% of it's brain and beat humans, it's really no use talking about what percentage of the brain is used
so maybe we can't use more than 10-15% maybe our brains are built that way, and maybe, we just need to get better brains  |
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Ragnarok member
Member # Joined: 12 Nov 2000 Posts: 1085 Location: Navarra, Spain
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2000 12:12 am |
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Hi there
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we learn by observation, so we can only assume that an order of events would have occurred for reality to reach this state, but we wouldn't know what was order of events, because we weren't there. |
I answer this before: we learn by observation AND by rational thinking. Abstraction thinking is what makes us so intelligent. And, to know something you have to be there? If you see in the news there has been a bomb, you believe is true, don't you?
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Creation was a miracle, not a myth. |
So there are miracles... I think creation had no meaning, no purpose. Why we have to think there was? Nothing tells us so, therefore we shouldn't look for it so hard. If one day we discover it had a meaning, great, but nowadays nothing tells us it had.
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I think there's enough evidence around us to prove the existence of God ... quantum mechanics, relativity, all to go to show that there is another realm above this "mechanical" universe ... perhaps expanding the arguments in that direction would be more productive. |
I don't know how many you know about quantum mechanics, but it doesn't prove the existence of God in no way. Is the same as saying that gravity means someone is pulling the planets.
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If everyone was blind, would we believe there was sight ? |
Sight is the perception of light, and we would know light exists. Just change the light with gamma rays: we can't see them, but we know they are there.
Maybe too agresive? If so, sorry =)
Chris, I'm going to answer you as well
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Did you know we only use 10% of our brain for thinking process (memories, calculations, etc.) Einstein was said to use 12% and look what came of him. All the stuff we got from him. I mean he almost figured out how to make a human travel the speed of light, with ONLY 2% more?!? |
First, Einstein had a smaller brain than the normal human. I know size doesn't means very much, but when you talk about using more brain and his was smaller, it sounds like he used a normal size brain (anyways, I've never heard about that 2% before).
Last studies I've read say the 90% of our brain is normally useless and it's used to regenerate our lost neurons in case of accident. Maybe it's outdated, if so correct me, but I thought it was a good explanation since the neurons we have when we born are the ones we will ever have.
About inmortality: what are we going to do with lots of very old people and lots of children? Or we stop having children or there is no real inmortality. It's a big problem!
Sorry again if the post is too long, but I wanted to say a lot
-Ragnarok
PS: Now I'm the one that will get some comments  |
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Ragnarok member
Member # Joined: 12 Nov 2000 Posts: 1085 Location: Navarra, Spain
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2000 12:18 am |
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What is life, a freakin trial? |
Chris, I agree with you in this. I think the answer is something like "this is a sorrow valley" I dunno because I've heard it in spanish ([i]La vida es un valle de l�grimas[/]) and my english is not very good
-Ragnarok
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Chris member
Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 746 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2000 6:55 am |
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that 10% could allso apply to the part of the brain we use to think, in which case, is it a fixed area? |
Correct, it is a set area. But the more neuron paths the more information that can travel. The speed is already there, it is pretty much instantanious, we just need the quantity. Einstein had more paths not even that much more, and look what kind of stuff he thought of, it is almost key to say he was thinking in another dimension.
And Einstein didn't suck at math. He didn't get good grades, that's different. But you got to remember, he was jewish kid and going to a cathlic school (a very strict cathlic school) and he didn't take well to authority, he hated it so much that he even was thought as a communist when he tried to enter the US.
And he didn't need proof on his math, it was needed to prove them. Like how all theory's need proving. That is how they become proved mathmatics. You can't prove theory's on your own, you could, but no one would believe you unless others proved it as well, and that is what happened
You think if someone just slapped the E=MC2 in front of you, you would just believe what it meant. No, you would (and others) would need to prove it, and they did, hence the atomic bomb  |
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Ragnarok member
Member # Joined: 12 Nov 2000 Posts: 1085 Location: Navarra, Spain
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2000 8:04 am |
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I think it's not a matter of quantity but HOW those connections are made, that's the real point of fast thinking and easy assimilation. That's why the experiments in some schools where they taught children some maths at the age of 2 I think, as well as they were taught more things than normal, they became more clever.
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You think if someone just slapped the E=MC2 in front of you, you would just believe what it meant |
This reminds me of my philosophy teacher, who says that Einstein and Newton didn't prove their theories and a philosoph told them which method they had to use. He is crazy, I know . Chris, you weren't meaning this, I think, but it sounds like Einstein just thought about those beautiful letters one evening before going to bed
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No, you would (and others) would need to prove it, and they did, hence the atomic bomb  |
You know Einstein was against any violent applications of his theory, therefore, would you say that we shouldn't research about this kind of things? Just another question to this already interesting topic
-Ragnarok
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Nex member
Member # Joined: 25 Mar 2000 Posts: 2086 Location: Austria
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2000 11:15 am |
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a reply to galen:
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omnipotent = all powerful. theoretically, one could do ANYTHING and ANYTIME. but this is impossible - can god create a rock he cannot move? if so then he is not omnipotent. if he cannot create this rock in the first place, the same rule applies.
Why is this impossible?
Basically you can do anything at anytime with energy.
-> transform it to matter
-> channel it to kinetic, static etc. energy.
Rocks are being "created" every second.. tons of them. They just don't pop into existence but are built from metals pressed together in earths mantle. And they move too. Even Mountains move.. but so slow that in one human life you would not notice it.
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secondly, the definition of omniscient = all seeing, all knowing. now if this hold's true, then there is no such thing as free will. since god knows all, he can see every individual's future, and since he knows what you're going to do all the time, you HAVE to do it, or god is wrong - and god is infallable. so secondly, god cannot be omniscient.
Theoretically (quantum theory when I remember correctly) a single action creates an infinite number of possible reactions.. everyone of those exists in a different alternate reality. So if I would be able to know all those I would know all AND you would still have free will (an infinite number of possible actions as opposed to just one)
Well... but I wanted to point out that neither the theory of relativity nor the theory of quantum physics is a proof for god.
Its just (ab)used for this purpose maybe because a lot of people heard of it and they know its about (for them) weird stuff.. so its easy to tell them something that they don't know about.
[This message has been edited by Nex (edited November 15, 2000).] |
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Count Zero member
Member # Joined: 12 Nov 1999 Posts: 586 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2000 11:38 am |
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God's existence, after all the discussions by physicists, philosophers and religious people, boils down to faith/belief, one way or the other.
God cannot be proven to exist, or not exist. No matter HOW hard you try. For every argument for either side, there is a counter-argument.
So, why don't you all just shut the fuck up!
Nah, I kid. But basically this thread, as any proper philosophical conversation, is heading towards a headbutting contest where there are no winners, just sore heads.
And also, I personally believe God's existance or nonexistance is everyone's private matter. I don't believe in someone telling you what to believe. |
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above member
Member # Joined: 09 Mar 2000 Posts: 272 Location: marlboro, NJ
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2000 6:52 pm |
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"Believe in nothing, consider everything"
"Beliefs are dangerous they cause the mind to stop working, a mind not working is clinically dead."
Some tool quotes for you fellas |
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Brue Guest
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Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2000 9:32 pm |
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Hey Galen. God (with a capital) wasnt forced to create us. He created us to keep him company. so the Bible says. And that is what i personally believe. Everyone has their own beliefs. Some people believe in God but in different ways then others. Some people worship Mary instead of God because he came from her. Any way you look at it i believe God exists. But FAITH is the key word here. Like Zero said.
If any of you want to reasearch this topic read this book: The Holy Bible It will give you the scoop on things.
And ....Adam came before Eve and before all that God was there
[This message has been edited by Brue (edited November 15, 2000).] |
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Chris member
Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 746 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2000 6:57 am |
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Chris, you weren't meaning this, I think, but it sounds like Einstein just thought about those beautiful letters one evening before going to bed |
How do we know he didn't? Now I know he didn't, but seriously people sometimes think of brilliant things in their sleep. Haven't you ever woke up one time I just say "Damn I understand that now" I have (being a programmer).
No, I was just trying to say that what someone says and what is proven are two different things.
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You know Einstein was against any violent applications of his theory, therefore, would you say that we shouldn't research about this kind of things? |
You think the US cared on the break of WWII what Einstein thought If we didn't use it Hitler would have (Einstein was from Germany) and there would have been no doubt that Hitler would have done anything to recruit him. It is unfortunate that we did make that horrible weapon, but with 2 countries attacking us at the same time and with limited military, we were desperate.
BTW, a new movie is coming out "Pearl Harbor" going to be really cool I think.
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He created us to keep him company. |
Isn't to keep someone company to be around him? And if we were to keep him company, why doesn't he return the favor and keep us company in a visual aspect so we can know if he does exsist. I just don't understand why he doesn't want his exsistance to be known.
And my question still stands. Why was Jesus born at that timeframe and all this "I saw God" -Moses at that time frame.
BTW how old was Jesus then, I mean the time in our history goes BC right to AD, the whole life of Jesus years are skipped. What does that tell you? |
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Count Zero member
Member # Joined: 12 Nov 1999 Posts: 586 Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2000 7:46 am |
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AD is the years after Jesus' birth, not death.
If that's what you mean. |
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Ragnarok member
Member # Joined: 12 Nov 2000 Posts: 1085 Location: Navarra, Spain
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2000 9:15 am |
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If we didn't use it Hitler would have (Einstein was from Germany) and there would have been no doubt that Hitler would have done anything to recruit him. |
I can't accept this because in my opinion Einstein would have never accepted nothing from Hitler (he was jewish, I think) and he lived in USA most of his life.
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with 2 countries attacking us at the same time and with limited military |
I can't agree with you because Germany was off when you attacked Japan and they weren't half their way on making the nuclear bomb.
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with 2 countries attacking us at the same time and with limited military |
I hope so, but last films about your military history haven't been very good. I'm talking about saving private ryan. It starts with USA flag and ends with 6 secs of the same flag. Too much "chauvinism". And Independence Day was just shit to me.
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And my question still stands. Why was Jesus born at that timeframe and all this "I saw God" -Moses at that time frame. |
I'm also intrigated with this question so someone who knows about this tell us something
And I want to ask this again: Do you think that we shouldn't research big and dangerous weapons like nuclear bombs? |
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Brue Guest
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2000 11:48 am |
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I dont honestly know how to use the quote thing so i'll just tell ya.
When Chris said: "If he did make us to keep him company why doesnt he show a visual aspect of himself to re assure us" (sumed up<----)
Have you ever looked out the window and said: My what a wonderful day outside, or WOW look at the beautiful night sky.
That is him showing himself. Through his creation we can see him and learn to know him. God has perfect timing, so if he felt the need to show himself he would. |
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Chris member
Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 746 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2000 1:04 pm |
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AD is the years after Jesus' birth, not death. |
Sorry, I was told AD = After Death, meaning after Jesus died. I guess I was misinformed there.
[qoute]It starts with USA flag and ends with 6 secs of the same flag.[/quote]
Ouch! You really did hurt my feelings there, those 2 movies are great. I can't believe you dissed SPR. And if it is because of country dependant, then I would have to say every country makes themselves heroes in movies.
I mean look at godzilla. It was a heroic for Japan for the first one. Then we got a hold of it and made us the heroic ones, but we did squeeze in the french LOL
And yes, I think we are in need to make these type of weapons. If not for here, for Space. There are a lot of things out there that could destroy us and at least we have a chance with the weapons we have today.
quote: My what a wonderful day outside, or WOW look at the beautiful night sky.
God has perfect timing, so if he felt the need to show himself he would.
First thing, no I have never done that. Not a window anyway. And that doens't do it for me as a visual aspect of God.
Second I think this is the best timing, all this doubt in faith in the world, and all these OTHER religions..heck, he is getting outnumbered don't you think?
It must be hard to believe in something that is so far from the grasp of the truth.
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Ragnarok member
Member # Joined: 12 Nov 2000 Posts: 1085 Location: Navarra, Spain
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2000 1:35 pm |
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And if it is because of country dependant, then I would have to say every country makes themselves heroes in movies. |
I hardly disagree with you here. When you see any european film, they are not saying their country is the best. Even french don't do it and in spain we make a lot of criticism.
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but we did squeeze in the french |
In fact, I thought Jean Reno was the best in the movie, but it's because he is simply a good actor.BTW, have you seen Leon (Lion in spanish, but a french film, interesting... )?
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And yes, I think we are in need to make these type of weapons |
You realize that there is a lot of crazy people that will use them against us, don't you?
About god and timing I agree with you, chris.
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shahar2k member
Member # Joined: 01 Jun 2000 Posts: 867 Location: Oak Park CA USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2000 5:10 pm |
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I'm sorry brue, but I have to say that is really low, infact that beutifull day argument is almost as low as "you don't have to believe in God, God believes in you!"
you know what, if I would replace God with say... a box of cornflakes, well here we go, whenever you open your window, and look outside and see a beutifull day, that's a box of conflakes showing itself to you, it's telling you it's there, it loves you, and it created you.
oooh here's one,
you don't have to believe in the box of cornflakes, it believes in you
now if those sound ridiculous to you, you now know how ridiculous they sound to me with God there...
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Chris member
Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 746 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2000 5:39 pm |
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hehe...I think Capt Crunch created us. |
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Brue Guest
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2000 5:57 pm |
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"It must be hard to believe in something that is so far from the grasp of the truth."
Thats the thing it isnt that far from the truth. If only someone could put it in words that work cause i cant seem to. Anyone want to help me out?
And about Corn Flakes, i know it must be hard to understand somethoing that sounds so bogis. Any one would. But God shows himself in other ways to. Whether you know it or not.
In the bible it says: after Jesus was baptized the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a dove.
See, he can apear in all ways shapes and forms. I dont know if you believe me or not. But that is what i believe.
Like i said before, if you guys want more info i suggest you read some verses from he Bible. It might help ya out a bit on this topic
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Chris member
Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 746 Location: Iowa
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2000 7:54 pm |
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quote: after Jesus was baptized the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a dove.
See, he can apear in all ways shapes and forms. I dont know if you believe me or not. But that is what i believe.
How can you believe in a spirit in a dove? I mean it's a rat with wings! I seriously don't know how you all can believe that.
And I have read enough of the bible to know that it is phony. I'll slap a bunch of Dr. Suess's books together and get about the same stories as in the bible. |
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