[Mergatroid]

Matt,

So your point is what exactly? Speaking for myself, I didn't go to that school because of any gospel that was handed down to me from the heavens. The simple truth is that I was basically too lazy to investigate other options and I knida fancied the idea of being in the Pasadena area. My second choice for a school was CSUF so it only goes to show one thing, I'm a lazy SOD when it comes to doing research.

Late,



------------------
Mergatroid

[Fred Flick Stone]

THere should be no point here. What was mentioned as a funny situation has been taken way out of context. It's great to hear the opinions of many, but lets not forget, this was about a joke, not the fate of many aspiring students.
The great ones who chose to go where they did chose it based on the schools merrit. The school was once a great independent art school, teaching with great instructors, but as times grow on and sponsorship from corporations are necessary for survival, the soul of the school has been tainted. There is still great instructors there, and there is still going to be wonderful instruction, in small portions, but as for a complete art education, what they used to at one time offer, you wont get it. You are still going to have to attend many different schools, and seek out private instruction if you want a truly balanced art education. Those select few with much undre their belt already will make this pursuit, for in their mind and abilities they will feel incomplete. I cant speak for everyone, we all think radically different on such matters, I just know the angle that I and a few others have taken, and they are similar. A good artist working for self gratification will not stop till he has found what he is looking for, and I hope he doesn't stop there either...learning is a life long process, its starting with the right set of rules that is important, and many schools including art center don't necessarily teach this.

I say no more on this subject, as I stand that I enjoyed my joke, and so did the rest of our crew, it was a moment in time that I remember, and shared. If you feel insulted I apologize, it's not going to stop me from joking around. As artists, we are stuck in our crazy emotions, learning to laugh at the humility we suffer through is actually a good thing. Try it, it's a wonderful learning experience, and will help your disposition greatly through the day.
I feel sorry for those who just don't know how to smile, it'll tack on a few years to your life. Heres three to start with...

[Matt]

Hehe, please don't let me play the role of defender of Art Center (or whatever).

My point is that, for those who are so inclined and can find the means, a "formal" training can be extremely useful, and people shouldn't begin to dismiss it as an option because it was (semi-jokingly) described as miseducation. You are no more likely to lose your identity there - artistic or otherwise - than anywhere else. It is *definitely* not to slam anyone here - the quality of the technical advice and the willingness to help that has been shown by some of the folks here is just great.

Last fall, a mini-conference about "entertainment design/education" (mostly movie stuff) was co-organized by Phil Hettema, who is a an ACCD alum, teaches there, and in his spare time is head of Universal's theme park development. Lots of industry people participated, including some production designers and guys like Nick Pugh from Digital Domain. The consensus, from what I heard, was that the fundamentals of design were what most needed to be stressed - perspective, form, value, etc. I genuinely believe that having these things bashed into your head is a good thing, and that even at place like ACCD (in ID anyway), it actually isn't emphasized rigorously enough. This doesn't necessarily hinder your ability to do anything else, it just helps you develop the ability to do these particular things well and with efficiency, and incorporate it into your toolkit.

Anyway, it wasn't my intention to help this topic veer off course - just wanted to cover a couple of bases that, well, weren't.

[Francis]

About that offhand joke - what else would you expect from a delinquent punk ass skater riff raff spray can little dirt bag social deviant artist like fred anyway?

------------------
Francis Tsai
TeamGT Studios

[Fred Flick Stone]

I second that...What Francis said...

[This message has been edited by Fred Flick Stone (edited July 31, 2000).]

[spooge demon]

Hey there, I am breathing again.

Thanks to all those guys that came to the talk, it was very nice meeting all of you, now I have faces to attach to the nicks

I am sorry Ieft so soon, but both my wife and I are pretty much geeky home-bodies who are uncomfortable in those kind of situations, and we had a long drive to get home. Not quite San Diego, but a ways.

I was really mad at myself for not preparing more effectively. I had a game plan, but I was really taken aback by the projection quality. It was a little frustrating. If I do this again, I will plan the presentation and makes SLIDES with close-ups. Argh. People paid good money to see me crater.

I thought John Watkiss was really incredible. I just can�t say enough good things about his work. The very example of going beyond technique. Also it drove home the point that at a high enough level, good drawing becomes almost a caricature as it becomes more and more sophisticated in design. I am just glad he did not laugh at my stuff. It represents everything that he seems to have the utmost contempt for.

This art center thread is interesting. The tension between the need to know what has been discovered before and the need to invent the new has been going on forever. Different people have different views on the usefulness and dangers of either being hog tied by worship of the past and trying to re invent the wheel from scratch. How do you learn from the past and then not have it influence you? Yes, Art Center is an academic school (not as much as I would have hoped for at the time) but so is every other school that I have seen. That is the nature of a school. A set of principles. Even anarchists have chaos as a unifying theme. How heavily do you weigh originality in the value of art? We know where Synj is on this one. It is a very legitimate question, and one to which there is no right answer.

Below is something I wrote several days ago, and it touches on both the photo issue a little. My wife was mortified that I gave the impression that I am a photo collagist. Ack! As I said, when I first started with Photoshop, I did not know how to paint with it, and i did paste photos together, now I use destroyed photos and old paintings to start on. That is it in a nutshell.
posted July 21, 2000 02:35 AM



Here is what lies beneath the knight image. Do not distribute or I get whacked. It is one of many comps for a game box I had open when I came on the thread and I just thought the lighting would be interesting. Bright light, warm plane, dark, reflective armor. You can see the text that I did not blot out is " the tradition." Obi's head is definitely what you are talking about, stick it in and nudge. The knight is totally from scratch, however.

I am not taking any figure classes per se right now. I paint from the model, but no mentor. I do pour through every book I can, though. And I copy I lot, always have. Great way to learn.
I am interested in your positive response to Steve�s ideas on drawing. I had a lot of the teachers he had and we were both given the same set of heroes. Steve is a bit older than I and has always really concentrated on draughtmanship, where I went hopping from flower to flower. His knowledge and experience with the figure dwarfs mine. I could probably paint a car better. I think he did it right.
If I could put the difference in approaches simply, AC is more concerned with proper construction, whereas Fixler emphasizes shape and rendering. I cringe to look at a lot of the stuff presented in the Fixler way. It is so far out and nobody knows, it is all covered up with a lot of fancy shapes and arbitrary, supersaturated and tasteless color. I had a guy at the Calabasas school tell me �artists� use �more color� and illustrators use �tone� Yech. A lot of it is kinda sofa size hotel-motel, $39.95 this weekend only at the airport Hilton assembly line jerk offs.
God, that sounds harsh, but I really do appreciate the place and what I learned there, please don�t get me wrong! There is Cretinism everywhere.
I am really glad I had exposure to both approaches, they complement one another very well once you are advanced enough to see how it all works. Maybe that is why you really liked Steve? I know when I first went to a fixler school it was �ah, the other side of the planet�
I think you are at the point I am and we should go off and try to do the work and solve our own problems in out own way. Reverence for the past, as important as it is when you are beginning, can be a trap. I touched on this a little in another thread about modern art. You got the tools, you know how it all works...
I was going to comiccon, I could have met you there. I have to stay here and prepare for that damn speech next week. I am thinking of getting really sick next Friday.

[ceenda]

There is definetely a difference between art schools that have a certain 'emphasis' and those that fail their students.

I was advised not to go to Glasgow School of Art as the opinion was not that the teaching was bad in any way, but simply that the person who advised me felt that the school had rested on it's (or should I say Charles Rene' Mackintosh's) laurels and, as such, was not providing a grounds for inspiration and innovation that surely an art school must provide (along with a sense of artistic discipline of course) in order to succeed.

For instance, before going to an art school I would have to assess what my aim is in going to the school. Am I trying to become more technically accurate (viewers of my last thread could have a field day), or am I hoping to gain a better insight into expression and the techniques adopted by previous artists to get an idea or concept across.

As Fred stated earlier, there should be no fear in critisising schools(especially on a humorous level) where it is felt that the school is not helping it's students to perform well by providing a creative environment.

spooge: I'm really sorry I wasn't able to come to your presentation, as I feel that I would have learnt a great deal, not to mention meeting the other great minds on the board who have contributed so much in the way of encouragement and advice to others.


[This message has been edited by ceenda (edited July 31, 2000).]

[Fred Flick Stone]

Can I be a geeky fanboy for just a moment? Would you please post the woman you painted. I was enamored by that piece.

And what you rewrote, I couldn't agree with you more. YOu started that comment, and Watkiss slammed it down in my face, sounds like it happened that way to you to. Dont worry about choking, just like bad paintings, you got to get that stuff out of the way too.

And to tell you the truth, I am glad your kinda geeky and homebody, if you were anything else you wouldn't be the Craig Mullin's we all love so much. Keep on Geekin' on, just dont smash your hands...

And I am still blown away that you think California is too cold. I know San Fran is cold, but Malibu? I think I could actually see you in Hawaii before Florida. Good luck in finding that comfort zone. San Diego is the ideal for me for now...

[WildMyth]

WOW Everyone seems so serious in here.
Heres a joke I found in Random Musing from Lukias. Thought people who missed it might
enjoy it in here.


JOKE

quote:

---

There's this guy who has been stranded on a deserted island,
all alone for 10 years. One day he sees a speck on the horizon. He
thinks to himself, "It's not a ship." The speck gets a little closer
and he thinks, "It's not a boat." The speck gets even closer and he
thinks, "It's not a raft.
Then, out of the surf comes this gorgeous blonde woman
wearing a wet suit and SCUBA gear.
She comes up to the guy and says, "How long has it been since
you've had a cigarette?" "Ten years!" he says. She reaches over
and unzips a waterproof pocket on her left sleeve and pulls out a pack
of fresh cigarettes. He takes one, lights it, takes a long drag, and
says, "Man, oh man! Is that good!"
Then she asked, "How long has it been since you've had a nice
cold beer?" He replies, "Oh, God, it's been at least 10 years!"
She reaches over, unzips the waterproof pocket on her right sleeve,
pulls out a dry ice pack from around an ice cold beer, hands
it to him and watches as he take a long swig and says, "Wow, that's
fantastic!"
Then she starts unzipping the long zipper that runs down the
front of her wet suit and she says to him, "And how long has it been
since you've had some REAL fun?" And the man replies, "Good God,
woman! Don't tell me you've got golf clubs in there!"

---

[Mergatroid]

LOL!!!




------------------
Mergatroid