[Chapel]

Ok ceenda.. I'm gonna try and help. I like doing portraits myself, so this is some things you might want to look at. I drew some lines to try and show an example. You still need to keep perspective in mind even though its a head. I drew a straight line through the peak of each eyebrow, the cheek bones, and a line through what should be the center of both eyes. Notice how one eye is bigger on the top than the other? All of these should lead to a point right? Well.. what is up with that line through the mouth? (hint hint) Now the yellow line represents the left side of his face.. you can barely tell, but your lips go over that line. The little green line is where I think the edge of your mouth should be. Hope this helps.. someone correct me if I'm wrong or if you can show a better example.



If I get a chance at home I'll try and sketch a head for you. Hopefully, spooge or Fred will beat me to it.

Edit: Doh.. just noticed you asked Fred. I hope I didn't screw my corrections up.

[This message has been edited by Chapel (edited August 24, 2000).]

[micke]

You posted another portrait some time ago?
I seem to remember the face.
The perspective of the mouth is wrong, it looks like it's been viewed from the front
and also looks too small.Make it follow the rest of the face perspective.
The eye in the dark area sits
longer into the head than the other and should be moved down a bit. Also study skintones more in order to get a more lively
looking skin. More pink, greens, purple, red....especially on the ear, wich nrmally is very red, pink. You could try to make the beard smooth in more with the rest of the face maybe use a little grey-green in the transition area. I think it also is easier to think shapes and volume on the hair
I really hope this can help a little.I'm sure Fred or somebody else could help you further.
I really like the way you describing the shapes around the eyes, nose
It looks very promising..Good luck


------------------
-Mikael Noguchi-

http://www.katode.org/noguchi/

[Chapel]

Here is an example from a sketch I did. (handsome guy if you ask me) Kinda shows what we mean about the perspective and finding the size of the mouth. (I know it looks nothing like something Fred could do but hey.. I'm tryin!!)



[This message has been edited by Chapel (edited August 24, 2000).]

[ceenda]

Chapel: I value your comments very much indeed! I put Fred's name up there because he usually leaps at the chance, jolly fellow that he is, and I thought he might skim past the posting otherwise!

You're right about the perspective with regard to the vanishing point.

micke: Some great crits there, thankyou. I used a lamp to set up the lighting on the right hand side which I think may have set the colour to one tone perhaps. I know what you mean about the mouth. If you isolate it, it looks as though it is viewed from the front.

He he, the beard is fuller than that, I just got a sore hand from doing so many strokes on my A6 tablet.

[Fred Flick Stone]

Ceenda, I downloaded the image and I will do an overlay on it for you. I will post tonight, but not till late. I am swamped right now, and there are many things to be said. I have to teach a class tonight also but after that, I will get this for you�sorry I can�t help right now.

One quick thing, think parallels, all the facial features run parallel to each other, i.e. the eye lin is parallel to the corners of the nose is parallel to the corners of the mouth. Keep all these parallel to each other and you should be in ok shape.

The mouth is built up onto a cylinder, this is the reason for the other corner disappearing or close to and the reason why one side of the lips is long and the other short. It is merely wrapping around a cylinder.

Ok, gotta jam, be back tonight with a tracing�good luck till then�

[ceenda]

NO EMERGENCY FRED!!!

[Muzman]

yeah, first thing I noticed was that the pic looks fine(appart from the lips) when I cover the eye closest to the viewer.
Anyway, our friendly neighbourhood wizards are on the job so I'll step aside

[ceenda]

Hi there.

[INSTRUCTIONS] - Put your thumb over the eye that's furthest away.
The portrait looks kinda okay, but take it away and, well, you get the picture(or not, as it may seem). I've tried drawing it as I see it but it looks wrong every time. Can the portrait people give me any hints and tips.

I've decided to stop doing my sci-fi stuff for now. I think that by practicing traditional art methods more I should be better at the sci-fi stuff when I starting do it again.



[This message has been edited by ceenda (edited August 24, 2000).]

[Fred Flick Stone]

Here is a rework. THe mouth resides on a partial cylinder, that is the reason the corner of the lips dissappears on the other side of the face/cylindrical form, recession of detail and form.

Also, hair, mass it together no strands, they break up the form, while the rest of your head has a great form to it. Everything counts the same way in the same painting, don't let any one component compete with the center of interest, because it has a texture you are not used to reproducing.

The face needs some hot spots in it to better define the form. YOu have an al over middle tone with no hot spots in the face.

I am sorry to be so blunt, I am tired and need sleep. Anyway, I hope this helps you a bit, if you need anymore explanations, post the questions, tomorrow at some point I will try to answer them, and good luck with the rest of these portrait studies, here is where the mileage starts...

[ceenda]

Fred: Thankyou so much for helping out with this, you're a star! I apologise as I feel I've possibly posted this in a slightly arrogant way, I hope I haven't been presumptious. I'm really excited about doing more traditional stuff like this and when people get exited they tend to make big statements/requests.

Your remake surprises me as, having not seen a photo of me I think you have got that portrait just right! You're right, I did kinda skim over the hair somewhat.


[This message has been edited by ceenda (edited August 25, 2000).]

[Chapel]

Fred: Is it just me or is the eye farthest away a little off. Maybe it is just the style or lighting, but the eye closes to us is very detailed but 2in away everything is blurry. Looks like it might be smaller too.

[Freddio]

Good job both guys

The emdiate thing which struck me on Cenedas wasnt the eye it was the chin!

[ceenda]

Okay, here's the updated version.



[This message has been edited by ceenda (edited August 25, 2000).]

[Rinaldo]

Your left eye seems to be bit more to the right than the one in freds pic.

(just Thinkin' aloud "with bad spelling")




[This message has been edited by Rinaldo (edited August 25, 2000).]

[ceenda]

Rinaldo: grammar my good man, grammar, thy sentence it doth not maketh sense ?!

[Jorge]

I think you are still ignoring some of those parallels Fred talked about, in the lips more specifically. Besides the fact that Fred pointed that the lips's further corner is somewhat (probably not completely) hidden, the corners are not aligned in a horitzontal parallel, not even a "perspectived" parallel if you were considering that too (the further corner is lower). Also I agree on his opinion of massed hair, and I this your rework still suffers from that.

This is just rumbling, though. Great stuff.

[Rinaldo]

LOL.... I passed English by the skin of my teeth.
It's also 8pm in Australia and I haven't had any sleep yet. Can't use the phone line in the daytime. And I seem to work better after 12.

Can I get a spel cheka in a browser?
Man you should see my handwriting.

(Sorry I should at least LOOK at what I type)


[edit-found some more ]


[This message has been edited by Rinaldo (edited August 25, 2000).]