[Frozen Consciousness]

...after having downloaded the Demo... I can safely say that it is probably THE most twisted, original and fun game I've ever played.

It makes you wonder if that's the effect of playing Doom and Quake too much...

Anyone else played it and thought the same?

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Frozen mind, Frozen cause, Frozen Reality.

[peter]

i also played the demo. very great graphics. (did not see an 3d-shooter with better graphics/leveldesign... id software for president!) but did not buyed the game yet. its very expensive here: 89,-, and i gotta learn for university

[Frost]

I expected better (game code, art, and animation wise).

[Guy]

yes i was pretty impressed with the game as well. the level design was amazing. and it was really fun to play. they really put a lot of effort in to that game, and it didnt take 3 years to make, like some games

frost: what where you expecting exactly?



[This message has been edited by Guy (edited February 11, 2001).]

[Guy]

well personaly i though alice set new standerd for level design. they wernt just static. sometimes the floor would split open beneath your feet or the floor your standing on becomes the celing as the whole level gets turned upside down. i havnt seen to much of that in games. at least not in FPS. im sure things like that happened in old 2d games and such, but its been some time.

i like oni too. i played the demo. lots of fun, but what else do you do besides fighting people over and over again? one could argue that, that is not new or origonal either. i know you didnt say it was or anything, but.. i guess it all comes down to personal preferance in what you find makes a good or bad game i suppose.

[shahar2k]

the game's "originality" relied on old tricks. ooh look a little girl with a knife, how twisted..... you want to see real horror, go watch Jacon's Ladder

yah the levels were slightly better looking but I've seen beutifull games, and they only last as long as there isn't a better looking game.

stylistically alice was nice looking, the voice acting was pretty good, but they could have spared my ears and wrote some better lines... (can't a cheshaire cat at least rhyme?)

if you want to see an impressive game of the same type... play Oni (although it's frustrating as hell with it's no save games) it's incredibly fun when it can be, while alice is just a Heretic II clone.

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Maybe I'm paranoid... maybe it's you!

[shahar2k]

yah I suppose oni is as original as alice, while you are right in that alice had set a new standard with levels, it's not the dynamics of the levels (if you want dynamic levels wait till Red faction comes out, or play one of the better 2D isometric games like crusader) it's basically that it managed to capture that psychadelic style so wonderfully,

Oni actually had a level that beat out alice in every respect, but not in terms that it was so outrageous but because when you play a game that is so realistically based (real architecture, human enemies so on.... ) and then you get to a dream sequence that is done so amazingly well... (I won't spoil anything though it beats out level after level of having the same psychadelic theme shoveled onto the screen.

it's just a matter of contrast

the reason why I liked oni was really more the story than the game, it had some great Ideas, beutifull gameplay (reminded me of that first time playing "Streets of rage" and the story was actually pretty deep and well delivered (good use of cutscenes)... but the game definitely had flaws,

in a good design, the frantic parts of the gameplay (beating people up in Oni) should be interspersed with slower calmer gameplay mechanics. however in Oni they never really let go and let you absorb the past experience. they do have sparse moments where you're reading story on consoles, or playing "find the console to unlock the door" however those are few and far between, and they put in this thing where you have to dodge moving lasers, which frankly got tired very quickly

all this combined with save spots which were mostly too far apart made the game frustrating to the point where I just cheated by the third time I had to reload...

still I thuroughly enjoyed the story, and the fighting.... so I'd give Oni a 7... and a 9 if they bring the save feature up to par with a patch. (although I wouldn't be helped since the single player game is over, and there's nothing left to do)

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Maybe I'm paranoid... maybe it's you!

[Frozen Consciousness]

Shahar2k-

quote

Quote:

the game's "originality" relied on old tricks. ooh look a little girl with a knife, how twisted.....

I agree with it up until the "ooh". It's not just that single thing that makes it great. I could have been just another game which is stupidly violent for the hell of it. The blood and extreme violence in Alice is rare and shocking because you arn't expecting it. But it's still a great game. You can sit and pick holes in any game you want, be it Half-Life, Unreal Tournament, Oni or whatever.I liked the way it was all put together. I'd go out and buy both Alice and Oni tommorow (if I had the money) because they're both brilliantly designed and concieved, even though I get the feeling that Oni is just an Anime film condensed into a Tomb Raider like game, which one second thoughts doesn't sound like a bad thing. At least they arn't clones of something (I could be mistaken so correct me if you need to).

I rate Alice an 8/10, only because I'm not into that Genre.
As for Oni... it's Bungie... enough said.

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Frozen mind, Frozen cause, Frozen Reality.

[This message has been edited by Frozen Consciousness (edited February 13, 2001).]

[Guy]

hey frozen. is that quoat supposed to be what i said? cause i didnt say that. that was shahar2k

[PandaX52]

DID ayone notice the LOAD SAVE DELETE menu?

they are abberviated as "L. S. D."

[shahar2k]

yah I'm a big whiner when it comes to games, nothing's really perfect to me... (half life and doom were close because they've managed to stay on my harddrive the longest )

you'r right though they are both great games, although Oni is NOT by any means a tomb raider clone, as much as half life is a thief clone, Oni has absolutely no jumping sections, no acrobatics,

if tomb raider was prince of persia in 3D than Oni is like all those Streets of rage games in 3D. and I was really impressed by the story in it....

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Maybe I'm paranoid... maybe it's you!

[Frost]

Oni sucks too.

[Frost]

I've been a total bitch lately as I am rather pissed off at pretty much everything especially some members around here who just can't appreciate the help I put so much effort into giving them, so fuck it.

Alice is well designed and stylish, but somewhat poorly executed - they know how to render cool shit, but they suck at real-time graphics.

Oni is as much fun as running in circles in a cardboard box with flares and cheesy alpha effects following you around to make it "nicer".

Fuck it all.

[This message has been edited by Frost (edited February 13, 2001).]

[Frozen Consciousness]

Guy - (so it is) damn, sorry about that, I'll alter my post.

Frost - Whoa... You do not sound too happy, what's got you this wound up?

[Ivey]

Well I liked Alice... and I liked Oni. Right now MrHiemey's got me playing Giants : citizen kabuto.

I hated Alices ending... but I was a big fan of the story.. so I had to play the game.

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Lunacy breeds Geniuses

[Ampa]

Both games left me disappointed actually. With Alice there was too much hype - there was no way the game could ever live up to the expectation. As for the level designs being so original / dynamic, again I disagree, anyone ever play Tonic Trouble from Ubisoft (same team as Rayman). That had very dynamic levels, with the character frequently revisiting the ceilings of previous sections, or moving walls around to open up new paths, or traveling back through a level using different transport.

My main complaint about Oni (saves aside) is that it is so empty! Huge warehouses containing a single crate!

Both are good games, don't get me wrong, but neither held my attention long enough to justify the cost.

Ampa.

[shahar2k]

ampa you'r right, see they had "real architechts" working on the game, which made it a beutifull blueprint looking game, with no living quality

btw did you like the dream sequence in Oni? I thought it was done better than anything I saw of alice (the demo only)

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Maybe I'm paranoid... maybe it's you!

[shaithis]

Alice - Yes, best level design I've seen in an action title to date. Good textures, too. Gameplay was completely uninspired. C'mon... I've played Half-Life, Wheel of Time, and Deus Ex. Run-n-gun just ain't gonna do it anymore.

Oni - Better gameplay, abhorable textures. I don't understand why companies that are simultaneously designing a game for PSX and PC can't build good textures and then dumb them down for the PSX, instead of just building weak textures. Makes the (already relatively simplistic) levels look terrible.

-shaithis
-http://www.texturestudio.com

[wayfinder]

shaithis, man.. everywhere i turn up - you're already there.. #trax planetcrap, sijun.. what's next?



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.think.big.

[shahar2k]

why do you say the textures were bad shait?
I mean they were plain, true, but the focus of the game wasn't on the levels, it was on the charecters, and you had to clearly see the charecters and what moves they were preforming.... plus I really liked the architecture in the game, it had a very ... grand... feel to it, (the demo sucks ass though, it's all in a crappy warehouse level which is worthless in showing some of the better buildings)
gameplay wise, the architecture wasn't important... it isn't a game where battles carry on over long distances, so all that mattered were the charecters....