[Giant Hamster]

"Yeah sure..they would just inject you with some dna and you would suddenly become intelligent?
The new generation will be. So where will that put us? Or the 99 percent of the world that won't be able to afford it?"

Stop just thinking about yourself. Quit being so self-centered and think about the future generations. Why does everything have to happen for you? If we create this to make people more intelligent and then it goes and becomes standard in the future, then we will have done our part to making the world a better place. EDIT: Because just like the cost of computer parts, they always get cheaper and then everyone can afford it.

[ April 11, 2002: Message edited by: Giant Hamster ]

[Guy]

well i'm not totaly against cloning, but i'm not all for it either. some of the things you people are worried about are pretty silly. if some one were to clone Hitler. who says that person is going to come into power and form a dictatorship? it's all in how the person is rased that leads to those sorts of things. it's not something at the genetic level. same thing about the smart and dumb people. one had a good education, the other did not.

one problem i see though is that the clone will suffer problems early on in life. i'm no scientist, but this is what i understand might happen. if you take the DNA of an older person who will develop arthritis in 10 years and then use that for a clone. that clone will start to develop arthritis when he/she is 10 years old. same could go for hair loss. so there are lots of problems that could happen when doing this, but i think in a way that this is good for science and our understanding of ourselves and things around us. we can't learn anything if we don't do anything. even if it means making horrible mistakes.

[ April 11, 2002: Message edited by: Guy ]

[edraket]

Hamster:

So if a cute little antilope doesn't want to be eaten by a big scary lion it's selfish?

Computer parts.. funny that you say that. How many people in the world can afford computerparts? Most are happy enough that they are not starving. Not to speak about the ones that are.
Of course you think the world is great and easy because everyone in your street drives a car or two. But it is not like that for the bigger part of the world.
And yet you are calling me selfish...tsssk

And how is the world going to be a better place when we can erradicate all flaws in humans? There has been people before that wanted to do that and we all know what it turned into.

[Giant Hamster]

"So if a cute little antilope doesn't want to be eaten by a big scary lion it's selfish?"

Well, your metaphor is completely wrong because in our case the antilope would be far dead by many many years and the lion wouldn't ever have had the chance to eat it. Because you're not going to be alive to see the benefits of this...so again, "STFU" and stop thinking about only yourself.

"How many people in the world can afford computerparts? Most are happy enough that they are not starving. Not to speak about the ones that are."

Yes, now let's all go hug whales and save the rainforest. You can't fix everything so get over it. ALSO: I'm not exactly rich either. I live in the ghetto, Sir. The houses around here have bullet holes in the windows and there are syringes sticking out of peoples front lawns.

"Of course you think the world is great and easy because everyone in your street drives a car or two."

Half the people DON'T have cars and the ones that do their cars are held together with duct tape.

"But it is not like that for the bigger part of the world.
And yet you are calling me selfish...tsssk"

No, now I'm just calling you stupid.

"And how is the world going to be a better place when we can erradicate all flaws in humans?"

And how is it going to be worse if we don't? Exactly. So it won't hurt to try.

[Jesta78]

Interesting post. Bottom line, I don't know the specifics on cloning but I know there will be alot of ethical and moral questions that's going to come from this. I'm not really afraid of the idea of cloning itself but rather the people who are going to control it.

Jusy my $0.02

[quintessential]

i think it's really stupid how so many people are outraged, scream, whine, say X Y and Z and make suggestions A B and C when they dont know a damn thing about cloning.

lemme just explain something here, (yes i realise most of you probably know this, but its clear some dont) cloning is NOT at all like some sci-fi movie where you press a button or pay a doctor to grow some cells and suddenly there's an exact duplicate of you standing beside you. cloning involves fertilizing an egg in lab conditions using DNA from someone else, then inserted the fertilized egg into an environment it could grow in. a 'cloned' human would NOT be a duplicate of the person he/she was cloned from, he'd have the same DNA, but all the external factors such as childhood environment and family, would be different, hence different personality, also, your DNA will not directly determine what you look like or how intelligent you are, yes it will be involved, but it wont be all determining. so you can't clone yourself, its not possible.

superbabies taking over the world and putting us all out of jobs? riiiiight. the technology would take at least 20 years before it would be at the point where people can 'order' the dna for their baby, and as ive already pointed out that DNA would not be all determining in terms of looks and intelligence.

basically right now cloning is a version of artificial insemination where dna is taken from a full grown individual instead of sperm cell.

where's the big deal?

(on a side note, when the typewriter first came round people were terrified that their children would forget how to write)

[Guy]

quintessential: those are really good points. that's something i forgot to bring up in my post. the part about it not being like hollywood. it seems that movies are where a lot people hear about cloning and get there ideas and opinions about it from them. obviously not a good source of information.

I had never thought about the looks not being the same, but that sure makes a lot of sence that they wouldn't be now that i think about it.

[edraket]

quote

Quote:

DNA will not directly determine what you look like or how intelligent you are, yes it will be involved, but it wont be all determining.

Well I am sorry But I thought the whole point of the research that is going on that they want to reproduce the good qualities of a person. If not what is it the point?
It's not all determining. Well of course not.
You are still taking the one thing that people get in life that is not dependant on wealth or stature and making it exactly that.
If you ask me that is just plain wrong. But apparently a lot of people don't seem to care about things like that.

There's a lot of people saying that it won't hurt us. That the technology won't be readily accessible for years to come. I know all that. But what does it matter?
Thats the same as people saying that we don't have to worry about the environment or overpopulation because it will be years from now when those things become threatening enough to make our lives miserable.

People say everything can go good or bad. Does that mean that we should just rush into anything without first wondering if it will hurt us?

Maybe my reactions before where kind of exaggerated. Well I'm sorry for that. I was just getting annoyed with some people that always seem to want to enter a serious discussion and start bullshitting without ever coming up with any actual points except for that they are so funny and clever.
I'm sorry if I insulted anyone, I did make assumptions about people just based on what they were saying. Lets not start shouting at each other.

[ April 15, 2002: Message edited by: edraket ]

[Giant Hamster]

"People say everything can go good or bad. Does that mean that we should just rush into anything without first wondering if it will hurt us?"

You're breathing right now...did you stop to question if the air is safe? No, You didn't. You probally have had a soda or a glas of water within the last year. Did you question if you were going to choke on the water? If the water was safe?

------------------

Soda contains Caffine, right? You cannot purchase caffine in a store...Caffiene has a warning label on it which says, "Toxic: Do not ingest. Skin irritant. will burn eyes. fumes may be fatal. do not store in any amount. Wear protective wear when handling" Yet you didn't stop to wonder what you were putting in your body?

Let's say you got sugar free soda...they use sweet-n-low(Aspratine or whatever)...right? Well...do you know whatelse includes aspratine? Rat poison. Do you know whatelse they have in soda? Well, some of the same chemicals used in anti-freeze for your car.

---------------------

Did you go outside today? You could have gotten skin cancer from the sun. A disease from things floating in the air. You could have been attacked. You have you died in any number of ways. Did you think about all the possibilities before you stepped out of the door?

--------------------

Do you wash your hands with soap, brush your teeth and floss after EVERY meal and snack no matter how small? did you ever question if the food was poisoned/molded/rotten? If you got all the bacteria off your hands?

[edraket]

I'm sorry I think you are forgetting a few things here.
For instance there is the not so insignificant matter of likelyhood.
If you want to cross a road but there is a bunch of cars coming up at 50 mph. Doesn't it cross your mind that it might be the more intelligent thing to wait or to walk down the road untill there is a crossing somewhere?

How big is the likelyhood that I die of drinking a soda for whatever reason? Probably around 0.001 %
Do I stop to wonder about my possible death by sodadrinking? No..of course not

How big is the possibility that I get hit on the road? I'd say there is a decent chance. Maybe if I am quick and agile I could reduce it to 10% Thats one out of ten attempt that would fail and cause my death. So I stop to wonder if it's a necessary risk and I ponder on the pros and cons of this action.

You are saying that you would just recite your soda theory and run for it?
I wouldn't think so.
So what you are saying is that you think the likelyhood of a disastrous scenario because of cloning is very small?
Then just say that man..and come up with some arguments.


edit: Attempt to fix grammer..This is my second language you know : )

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: edraket ]