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Awetopsy · Posted: Fri May 03, 2002 9:00 am

Photoshop 7

Apparently a new painting and brush system and new features? anyone try it?

I wanna give it a go.

[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: Awetopsy ]

James Bradford · Posted: Fri May 03, 2002 1:55 pm

The new brush engine is sweet.

pixelsoldier · Posted: Fri May 03, 2002 2:23 pm

Dude, it has been out for like a month.

I've been using it for about three weeks. I like it fine, but it takes some getting used to. The new brushes are... not the greatest. Originally people HOPED it would rival painter in terms of being able to emulate traditional media, but it doesn't even come close.

The healing tool is kinda neat, and there are little interface tweaks everywhere. Like I said, it takes some getting used to.

In my opinion, it shouldn't have been an entire new release. Lots of people say it should be labeled as Photoshop 6.5, and I agree.

[Shizo] · member Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 3938

Im still using 5.0 and i truly poop at anything after that because its just .. lame :0
Dhabih is using 3.0 still, no?

pixelsoldier · Posted: Fri May 03, 2002 5:01 pm

Dhabih isn't a real person. :P

And, I think he said he was using 3.05, but that was like... 3 years ago. I think he has upgraded since.

Impaler · Posted: Fri May 03, 2002 5:17 pm

You know, Shizo, EVERYONE said the same thing about Photoshop 5.0 two years back..

"5.0 uses too many resources! it sucks! what's with the web stuff? whaa! I'll only use 4.0"

As long as 7.0 doesn't connect the dots with my brushstrokes, I'd be happy.

Of course, I would need several hundred dollars to buy it.

*shrug*

[Shizo] · member Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 3938

Well, its true!

SWANYDSPIN · Posted: Fri May 03, 2002 7:10 pm

why dont you just download it of the net for free?

Impaler · Posted: Fri May 03, 2002 7:28 pm

Eh. I can't. I'm usually too busy out robbing old, blind ladies in wheelchairs for spare change.

Brain · Posted: Fri May 03, 2002 8:41 pm

I'd still be using 4.0 if I didn't lose my copy, and I ain't gonna budge from 5.0 unless something really impresses me, which so far, hasn't.

antx · Posted: Sat May 04, 2002 12:27 am

I think sticking to old versions is not a good long term solution. At some point you will find your self far behind and have a hard time to catch up. I know a guy who only recently switched from 3DSR4 to Max4. It�s a very hard switch. He made nice stuff with 3DS4 but it took him ages.
I�m also not happy about all the changes they do in PS (and also not about all the one�s they don�t do) but altogether is always still better than the version before. The Text tool got worse in 5 and even worse in 6, but in 5 you have more than just one "undo" and in 6 you can finaly have more than 100 layers. :-)

Did actually anybody notice that in PS6 the layer style dodge doesn�t work the way it used to in PS5? I have quite some PSD�s which therefor are now useless.

bearsclover · member Member # Joined: 03 May 2002 Posts: 274

I pre-ordered, so I've had it for about 3 weeks too. I love it. Already. Sure, it wasn't as dramatic of an upgrade as, say version 5 (so I hear) but it's nifty.

The thing that made me want to get on board right away was the "Browse" function. I have TONS of photos and files and I don't organize them as well as I could. So being able to "browse" is absolutely wonderful. A real time-saver.

I haven't had much time to look at much else. But the "balance" function (shift-apple-B on the Mac - I think) is really cool. It sometimes is all you need to fix a wonky photo. I memorized that keyboard shortcut the first day I upgraded.

Also, for the Mac, the upgrade process was seamless. At least on OS 9. I can't speak for OS X, I don't use it much.

I like the new filter window (much bigger, you can actually see what the filter is going to do). And, I do like the new brush engine. It's an improvement, anyway.

So far, I really like it. I still have PS 6 on my Mac, and use it now and then. And I realize that I am already spoiled by PS 7.

As far as older PS versions, I think the oldest I would want to go is PS 5, because it has the history functions. I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't backtrack at least a few steps!

Actually, my "first" real taste of Photoshop was with PS 3, on an old Mac. I bought an old copy on eBay about 2 years ago. I loved it so much, so I immediately bought PS 4 (on eBay) but found out that the (somewhat unsavory, it turns out) dealer had given me a CD for version 4, but a registration card for version 5.5! I called Adobe, told them my whole story. They told me to register the version 5.5 number, and for a small fee, they'd sent out a replacement disk of 5.5. So - I got a copy of PS 5.5 for the price of a used copy of PS 4! (I say that the dealer was "unsavory" because he lied about several things on his ad, as it turned out. I didn't trust him.)

Anyway, sorry for rambling. But I still want to pinch myself when I think that I got a "new" (current, at the time) copy of Photoshop for about $100!

pixelsoldier · Posted: Sat May 04, 2002 5:12 am

lol, Impaler.

Shizo, not everyone pirates software. Some people don't know how, some people actually have morals. It's pretty silly to just assume everyone enjoys "stealing" their software. A lot of people around here are proven professionals.

SWANYDSPIN · Posted: Sat May 04, 2002 6:39 am

fuck having morals when it comes to big corperations, they fuck up the world, so i say if you can get something for free because they fucked up then do it, Its way to overpriced anyway.

xino · Posted: Sat May 04, 2002 9:27 am

The dodge tool from 5.0 and 5.5 was actually a bug..it was never supposed to work like that. unforunately

I don't think adobe has any clue as to how many people actually like dodge and burn the way they used to work...now dodge is just airbrushing white on top of the layer...I wouldn't exactly call that a layer effect but oh well...

personally I still have 5.5 installed to do dodge and burn the way they should be done...then I just merge that certain layer with a blank layer and pop it up into ver. 7....pain in the ass kind of process but it's better than not being able to do it at all...

Light · Posted: Sat May 04, 2002 9:00 pm

I think the problem is these corps dont have a brain -- and esp not for artist. Even painter is so screwed up that I could design a better program. Heck, I could code a better paint program then the big ones I've seen if I didn't have to add the quadzillion features, and I had a rapid protype operating system.

I think the problem with the big corps is all they see is profits so they look at markets and try to appeal to larger and larger groups of people. Mainly, people who can't paint and don't care.

The problem is the designers don't have much clue how to design easy to use software. People see 1,000 options on the screen and think they are getting a better buy -- when they are probably just getting more informational overload.

Yeah, if anyone is running one of these big companies wants a designer to help you design the best program on the market then contact me.

.. But yes, windows is part of the reason, fat cats lining greedy pockets is another, and marketing people without brains are the primary reasons we dont have truly killer programs yet.

I'm sure the people at adobe probably already have a killer app but are only implementing some of the features so they can keep releasing new versions to make more money, sell more cheap books, and frustrate more artist by changing and making things worse with each new release.

... But, yeah I think in the future the 2d programs will start to take more from the 3d applications, data/information processing, etc.

Just how mcuh longer do I have to wait to get a killer app that does emulate real paint tools with amazing (3d) accuracy AND is easy to use AND goes beyond tools like painter allowing one to easily cheat and use simple digital tools. I think this is the future..

We have the "digital" painting era, the post-digital painting era (ie true emulation), and eventually will have the modern era (amazing emulation, amazing new tools that are needed, and realistic tools too).

Like.. for instance why hasn't photoshop implement a blending tool that really kicks? Something like the one in Deep Paint. Why don't we have some killer tools like that.. Instead we have to spend a lot of time tweaking settings to get even a decent blend.

bearsclover · member Member # Joined: 03 May 2002 Posts: 274

quote:
Originally posted by SWANYDSPIN:
fuck having morals when it comes to big corperations, they fuck up the world, so i say if you can get something for free because they fucked up then do it, Its way to overpriced anyway.

Yeah, whatever. I guess if you have no plans on going pro, and just want to tinker around with the software a little bit, that's one thing. But if that's the case, why not just get an academic version? It's priced within most budgets. And then there's the eBay route, which worked very well for me!

As for some of us - we have this crazy aspiration to maybe go pro or semi-pro some day. Using bootlegged software is very uncool, IMO. Besides, I know I just wouldn't feel right being a big "Photoshop advocate" (and I am, I am!) if I were using stolen software. If I am a big fan of the software (and I am, I am) I'd better be willing to pay for it.

Awetopsy · Posted: Sat May 04, 2002 11:26 pm

i use 6.5 now... Its alright. It took a while to get used to.. but I certainly hope they make these program better. so many programs these days are being bogged down with features which take up more resources... :P

i started working in PS 4.0 a while back.. and it worked great too... So I think I can see both sides of the coin

pixelsoldier · Posted: Sun May 05, 2002 12:51 pm

quote:
Originally posted by SWANYDSPIN:
fuck having morals when it comes to big corperations, they fuck up the world, so i say if you can get something for free because they fucked up then do it, Its way to overpriced anyway.

Dude, are you like 10 years old? I mean, are you able to look at this from a logical point of view without using a whole bunch of swear words and nonsensical generalizations?

How exactly do corporations "fuck up the world"?

"if you can get something for free because they fucked up then do it" .. what exactly did they fuck up? Your wallet?

If you're going to argue a point with as much .. uhh... "passion" as this, you should back it up with facts and valid views.

bearsclover · member Member # Joined: 03 May 2002 Posts: 274

quote:
Originally posted by Light:
I think the problem is these corps dont have a brain -- and esp not for artist. Even painter is so screwed up that I could design a better program.

Then why don't you?

quote

Quote:

The problem is the designers don't have much clue how to design easy to use software. People see 1,000 options on the screen and think they are getting a better buy -- when they are probably just getting more informational overload.

Photoshop is designed for the high-end user. It has a lot of options, because it is appealing to a complex base of customers. But if you feel it is too difficult for you, no one is making you use it. There are a lot of other graphics programs out there, they'd be happy to take your money. (And yeah, you should buy the programs.)
quote

Quote:

Yeah, if anyone is running one of these big companies wants a designer to help you design the best program on the market then contact me.

Well, call 'em up and leave 'em your number! I'm sure they will get right back to you!

quote

Quote:

I'm sure the people at adobe probably already have a killer app but are only implementing some of the features so they can keep releasing new versions to make more money, sell more cheap books, and frustrate more artist by changing and making things worse with each new release.

Well, that's a rather weird and paranoid view of things. Besides, speak for yourself. I am not confused or frustrated that much by Photoshop. Of course it is huge, and of course I have not mastered it all, and probably never will. But I enjoy using it. That's the bottom line for me. (And I am no computer guru, that's for sure!)

Since you claim you could create a better app yourself, go and do it!

Dr. Bang · Posted: Sun May 05, 2002 4:21 pm

"Adobe Photoshop 7.0 upgrade
To install upgrade successfully, you will need a serial number and a previous version of this product on the same platform as this purchase.
Limited time offer: Includes free "Best of Photoshop 7" training CD. *
from US$149.00"

pixelsoldier · Posted: Sun May 05, 2002 5:42 pm

lol, I found Light's post to be utterly laughable.

You think quite highly of yourself, mister. I'm now anxiously awaiting the release of:

Light's BetterThanAllTheRestCuzImTheBest v1.0

antx · Posted: Sun May 05, 2002 6:09 pm

<< The dodge tool from 5.0 and 5.5 was actually a bug..it was never supposed to work like that. unforunately >>

Really? You mean that?
The dodge worked that way also in PS4 and I think if 3.0 had it then there as well. It only changed with PS6.

the layer still does something dodge like but not while painting in it. Try an image as dodge layer. That one gets dodged (so to speak).
It doesn�t make any sence the way it works now and is completely useless too. So I think the way it works NOW is a bug.

One way to make your old PS5 dodge layers work again is this (just found out by trying):

- make a new layer beneath the screwed up dodge layer,
- fill it with black,
- set your screwed up dodge layer to layer mode "normal",
- LEAVE the layer opacity as it is!!!,
- merge both,
- and set the layer mode back to dodge.

That should look like it used to look in PS5. You can even paint then in this layer "dodge like" with the limitation that there where the layer is still 100% black it will not give the dodge effect. A work around for that then again would be, to use not real black but something like 1,0,0 for this new layer.

hope it�s of use for someone...

Sharper-Image · Posted: Sun May 05, 2002 7:50 pm

Hmm, it seems as though I'm a minority, but I adore Photoshop 7.0 :/

Giant Hamster · member Member # Joined: 22 Oct 1999 Posts: 1782

I feel Photoshop 5.0 is just fine.

Usually a program will go:

v1.0 = wow a new program that does something cool.
v2.0 = we added more buttons.
v2.5 = a few buttons didn't work...oops.
v3.0 = We added some "Special features" and a training manual...oh, and where'd the toolbar go for fuck's sake?
v4.0 = Sorry bout the toolbar thing...it's back now with a shnazzy new interface that sells like mad. Hope you don't mind the icons looking different...
v5.0 = Phew...the comfort version. We took all the good stuff from v4.0, included extras from v3.0 for free this time, lowered the price, and made the interface customizable with "easy-click buttons"!!! what do you think now?!?!
v5.5 = Sorry...those easy-shit buttons didn't work with people running "___OS"...we've upgraded the code and made it compatable. There's an easter egg now too and we made the text bigger for you old folks.
v6.0 = Welcome to the new age of our program! we deleted almost everything and made round edges on the interface...we noticed in v5.5 that we accidentally deleted that toolbar thing again...it's back now....but with bubbles instead of bricks and you can get to it by clicking using the "fast-Menu"(THIS IS NOT THE Easy-Click Buttons thing in a menu...it's advanced...really). We added over 60+ new cool tools that we think you'll like...oh, and now we made the pallette capable of holding up to 50,000 colors instead of 2000!! This version works on "___OS" even more so utilizing it's special features and there's even a navigation box for easy viewing on higher resolutions. we fixed a few bugs too.
v6.5 = fucking hell...due to popular demand we've added "Teapot maker Pro" and bundled the program with 3 add-on packs. the instruction book doesn't come with it anymore like in 4.0...but you can buy it for $400 though...We also made it possible to show everything at once and added 4 more toolbars, an animated helper named toolbox timmy, and large animated buttons that make sound.

Basically: if this program was made a long time ago, version 1.0 through 3.0 would be completely useless in todays day and age...where as 4.0 would work, 6.0 would probably be good if you're starting new and 5.0 would probably be the best version to get stuck with if you already have it. upgrading to 5.5 would be a bad idea...but from 6.0 to 6.5 would be suicide.

*Not based on photoshop...just what program's seem to do even in audio programs that I have...

xino · Posted: Sun May 05, 2002 10:00 pm

actually from what I've read at many places it's been ssaid that the dodge tool has been a bug ...it was "never" supposed to work that way

I read it on phong.com a long time ago but I can't find it on his website any longer so I can't give exact details on it

he was able to explain it much more eloquently then I ever could...

sorry I don't have a link

Little Beefucker · Posted: Mon May 06, 2002 12:47 am

I backed up 5.5 from my school years ago and have since become very fond of it. I've also been a thru-person legging 6.0 (and 7.0 if I don't pay attention) to other testers -- but on my "old" P2 400 I'm kind of a codger with that fear of new things.

I wonder, with each new version of anything, companies are moving with the times -- and the times include serious processors with serious horsepower. Upgrading to 7.0 seems like a waste unless you're using state-of-the-art hardware to pump it. Bigger windows, more internal apps... Is it really so fantastic?

This is just me, inexperienced doodler, of course.

Endymia · Posted: Mon May 06, 2002 5:51 am

You can download Photoshop 7 off the internet?? WHERE WHERE?!?!?!?!? Can anyone tell me where I can download the latest Version of Painter, Lightwave, and animatek?

Light · Posted: Mon May 06, 2002 6:13 am

Bears:

I dont have to address all of your paints but I said I could DESIGN (not code) a better program. And, anyone who has used Painter would realize that implementing this statement would not be terribly difficult.

Regarding "high-end" users.. well I would consider myself one of those considering I can code in 5-10 languages and have used "high-end" 3d apps too. However, being a high-end user does not mean, repeat does not mean, desiring a poorly designed program.

Why is that a wierd and paranoid view of things? How do you think software companies make this software? They have to bug fix it, try it out, approve it, and all of the above! If you have any doubts on this then look up the word "beta".

I do admire photoshop and it would be hard for any company to beat it on every point because it can do so much. But, as far as traditional wacom painting goes then I do think I could design a program that could outright crush Painter or Photoshop.

If I were blind then I could go on enjoying each new minor alteration that a company makes to a program. I could go on enjoying the lack of concept driven concepts in todays software. I could go on enjoying DOS for that matter.

It is only when one starts to think about the POSSIBILITIES of what is possible that one will realize just how poor the software we have today is.

And, yes to do any of this would be difficult but fully possible.

Light · Posted: Mon May 06, 2002 6:26 am

Btw, If you *really* want to defend photoshop development record then make a big circle with your wacom tablet in any version prior to 7 (which maybe in this one too).

This is connect the dots/line agorithm. This type of solution is horrendous in a multi million dollar - stated -- best paint program/photo-manip program in the world

Try to change the short cut key settings.

Try to change the background color of the window (which is suppose to be set by windows) without going into full screen mode. Look for any option to do this.

etc etc etc

Also, look at the new options in 7 compared to previous versions.. The crap should have been released as a free patch.

-- But like I said that part of the problem is Windows which is keeping smaller developers out of the loop due to the difficulty of developing for it because of the monopolistic operating by microsoft and the difficulty of developing for windows. I think as both the technical issues dissolve (or become less) and MS loses its grip then we may have a proliferation of smaller programs that will be able to provide strong competition in limited areas -- against the corporate packages.