[nova]

there is a God, i talked to him this morning

don't ask me how i know He exists, i just do. it's called faith, and it's so strong that it drives me, as doubtful about everything as i am, to believe there surely is a God and he's provided for all my needs.

i'm not going to expend more mental energy than i have to; i just know there is something out there.




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*nova
!

[Bugscratch]

You know I wonder why all the believers keep so quiet here. I actually expected a full featured flame war to start about this question.... is there a god or not ?

-bugscratch

[faustgfx]

out there are just things like spitfire, me, affected, and whoever other turbofreaks frequent this forum.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected] /
icq#35983387

[shahar2k]

what I'm saying is basically Ahkam's razor: the simplest explenation is most likely the most correct.
thing is, if you say a square has four sides, than you are only saying it about a square (all squares) and that encompases very little of the universe, and therefore, is a very certain assumption
however if you say the universe is created by a being outside it. well, you've just given a very general all encompasing statement, witch in most probability is wrong

my understanding of the world comes from very simple logical principles, but even then I always apply doubt to even the strictest of beliefs.

you could say I have no faith, but that's not true, because my beliefs come before the doubts, meaning I will consider the possibility, before discounting it.

if you say you believe in god, then I say you are telling the truth. but if you say that god created the world, in six days and then rested. I'd tell you to think of the relevance of that to your faith.

[Spitfire]

Yes! mwahaha! hear ye the prophecy of faust! Outside there are but desperate creatures, foul and evil in their dissapointment! mwahaha! Fear the outside world!! embrace the internet!! mwahahah! No love! no satisfaction! despair! loneliness! no love, none i say!! mwahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagghh!!!!

[faustgfx]

my being has incorporated into itself this subject as of which you speak as 'love'.

it seems to be malfunctioning out of lack of maintaining process.

*mechanical whirrr sounds*


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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected] /
icq#35983387

[Spitfire]

Ah, you must be a 5.1 release from the early Beta run. Im an 8.0 which incorporates no such feelings as love (last known supported version : 2.3) or happiness (never technically supported). It simply doesnt justify the efforts because these centers never get activated anyway. Better to save processing power for Inspiration 2.3 Alpha release, Misanthrophy 2000 and optionally Advanced Depression Package 5.

[faustgfx]

the Loss module developed consciousness of itself and drilled it's way to the central function unit.

etc.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected] /
icq#35983387

[Spitfire]

Yeah, that�s a typical bug : certain modules are capable of overriding basic control functions. My central control unit has been under direct control of the Cynicism-drivers for over 8 years now..

[balistic]

My wang has a virus.

[Count Zero]

They're so goddamned hypersensitive.
Dibs on 100th post.

[faustgfx]

which, girls or wangs?



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected] /
icq#35983387

[Spitfire]

Wangs. Sensitive girls are a contradictio in terminis.

[faustgfx]

i knew one. ages ago.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected] /
icq#35983387

[Silico]

sheesh, i didn't know i picked such a sensitive subject... well, sorry for not responding. i guess i was wrong to say

"believe in god blah blah blah" i think should have said that i believe in stuff that he promised... it's up to you, i have nothing against(other than the fact that you need proof for everything) you and really you're arguments sound pretty convincing. you guys probably are a lot smarter than me and i really couldn't put up a good fight. i don't know it's kinda like Nova's thing where it's just a faith thing, you know?

anyways, the reason the people who believe in god don't respond is that (i think, atleast) it's really kind of hopeless to try and make you believe in christ. and if you're forced to believe in him it misses the point altogether, you have to come to him willingly. anyways, atleast you Balistic believe there is a god(whether you like him or not) -- you said he murdered the entire population of earth. i'm sure you can pick out all the "bad" things he did, it just like the stereotype of all americans being fat or all africans being poor.

again, same goes for both sides of this one -- talking about this won't change any of us, it will only make people mad. sounds to me like you're all trying to convince yourselves there's no god more than anyone else.

it's so much harder to believe in god, it seems like there are a billion times more arguments against why i should beleive. by keeping my faith, that in itself is gods work.



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`~*Silico

[balistic]

I don't believe in god mate, sorry to get your hopes up



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"What we're hearing, techno, is the process of trying to create something of the future." - J.M.

Brian "balistic" Prince
3D Artist
Eggington Productions
www.bprince.com

[Enayla]

As strange as it may sound, I hope that God /doesn't/ exist.

I'm not even baptized. I've only been to church a couple of times in my life, and then when I was forced to. I believe in free will, not in the punishment of some cranky old guy who set up rules that are impossible to follow.

I hope there isn't a God because that'd mean that we have no true free choice. We're all ruled by the threat of going to hell. We have to obey and be good little boys and girls. If I'm to be a "good girl", I want to be a good girl because my heart tells me to. Not because there's a book that tells me I'll be punished if I'm not.

So. I've never killed, never stolen, I don't even kill animals (vegetarian), I rarely lie... and I'd still go to hell because I don't believe? Nyaah :/

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��Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change��

[Ragnarok]

Enayla, neither I am baptized. I don't believe in god or any other deities out there. However, I recently read a little theory of Pascal. I think it's called the bet of Pascal. He said that there are very few possibilities of the existence of God, but the possible benefits of his existence were enough to believe in heaven and him.
I still don't believe in him, but what do you think about this "bet"?

-Ragnarok

[Count Zero]

Yeah, I remeber that from philosophy class...
It was actually kinda neat. "logical" reasons to believe in God:
1)Don't believe in God and He doesn't exist = no problem
2)Don't believe in God and He does exist = hell
3)Believe in God and He doesn't exist = live a (possibly) fulfilling life and don't suffer the consequences, 'cause your dead without heaven or hell.
4)Believe in God and He does exist = Heaven
Problem with this is that how do we know god is a Christian?
I suggest reading the thread "Philosophy campfire #" about god and religion. Quite fascinating...

I meant women. They are hypersensitive. Believe you me.
Oh, and day after tomorrow is when I fly off to Albuquerque.

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COUNT ZERO INTERRUPT-
On receiving an interrupt,
decrement the counter to zero.

[Enayla]

Ragnarok: Well, honestly... heh heh...

I would wager it just about as probable that there's a huge marshmallow man out there, armed with a big club that he bats all sinners over the head with when they die, as there is a God.

I mean... look at how many religions there are. And how many there have BEEN. I believe it's just as probable that just about any of those is correct. And just as probable that a religion I suddenly come up with (say, the "Worship the Carrots Cult") is correct in its beliefs as an old, "esteemed" religion.

IF there is something out there, we're still just humans. And humans lie, humans have hallucinations, and humans...well... we talk a lot of bullshit, honestly. Who's to say which one of all the prophets and seers and just regular people is correct? Why would I believe more in Jesus than in Buddha, than in Elvis still being alive?

Naw. I leave faith to those who need it. I don't. And if there IS a God out there, I guess I'll fry... Heh... but I'm just as happy anyway!

... maybe Elvis IS alive...

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��Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change��

[Bugscratch]

Silico: Well I have (or rather had) to convince myself that there is no god.
I've been brought up in an environment with literally everyone believing in god and telling me I have to believe in him too....
It was taught to me in the same way that it was taught to me that it's air that I breathe, that 1+1 is 2 etc.
So it was not too easy to get convinced of the opposite (Not that there were ever a final knowledge. Not to believe in god is believing as well, it's just believing the opposite).
But well, there was a time when people believed the earth was flat.

-bugscratch


[This message has been edited by Bugscratch (edited December 14, 2000).]

[Enayla]

Hey! Not ALL women are hypersensitive!

And certainly not all the time

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��Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change��

[balistic]

Enayla: you nailed the main problem with Pascal's Wager. The man was a whiz with pressures, but not too great at philosophy



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"What we're hearing, techno, is the process of trying to create something of the future." - J.M.

Brian "balistic" Prince
3D Artist
Eggington Productions
www.bprince.com

[Ragnarok]

My personal theory is that when human beings where living in caves they didn't understand anything and they made up supernatural humans and called them gods. They were the ones who killed people and maded storms. But when they started to know something more, they changed to a bigger and more powerful god, who was capable of doing the world and such. They still needed something that could support their lives and god was the perfect answer.
But now we live more peacefully and we don't need a god as much as they did so now people start to doubt the existence of deities.
Oh, and in the middle age people who didn't believe in god where persecuted and burnt. Ouch.

-Ragnarok

[shahar2k]

Enyala, not all women are hypersensitive, but my sister is today... heh at least she has the heart to tell me "don't mess with me today, PMS"
it's funny, 2/3 years ago I would have been at my sister's throat, now were like best freaking friends... I'm 3 years older btw,

anyways, about this God fellow,
Ragnarock: real interesting tidbit, I saw this research show where they talked about the 12 original Tribes of Israel and tracked them around the world, some ended up in pakistan some even in Asia, where people believe in jewish traditions, and folow them, but do not call themselves jewish. now, historical evidence points that yes, people did believe in the same form of religion before modern times. however it is said that around the time of abraham, all gods were worshipped in temples, and with statues and various tools, however
the Israelites being nomads, they needed a god they could worship anywhere they wanted, in the field, and in travel, so that's how the "everywhere, all knowing, all powerfull" god came to be, so basically, this is the portable, easy to handle (one god fits all) version of the greek gods.

so yah I like Voltaire "if god did not exist, man would be forced to invent him" God, is the term we give to infinity, and nothing.

[Lukias]

I believe in god, or whatever name you may give him/her.

One thing that I'd like to ask those who are religeuos is - Why is that people can believe wholeheartedly that what is writen in these pages is true?. I feel generally that it is because these books (bible is really what I'm reffering to) are old....for some reason when something is old especially a couple thousand years, people tend to take it as gospel or have much more faith in it. When I see it as being dodgy, Its had a very long period of time to be *tampered* with.
Now some people may respond that they *know* or have an inner feeling that they know *their* faith/religeon is true (this meaning of course that their religeon is right and others that differ are not....in those aspects that differ). Yet all people of all religeons say this...that they feel within their hearts that what they believe is true. So how can it be that they disagree (enough to kill each other in many places)and yet they all feel they *know* they are right, when they all....disagree. this is something I have thought about many times and it (I feel) should make those think really hard about why they should be right and others wrong. what is in your heart that is not in theirs....how can one *feel* right when others of a different faith *feel just as strongley*?.
Not aiming for flames here but its something I plan to ask the mormons next time they come knocking at my door.

[Lukias]

Forgive my spelling, I didn't review it....ME goUd SpilAAr

[moocow]

yeah, most girls suck...not all, but most. at least the ones i know.


like girls are all bitching about how guys are never honest and shit...and they flirt with you for like 5 friggin months and then suddenly pretend they don't know you?? what's up with that?

[moocow]

don't mean to impose...just suggesting you guys check out this book. if you don't want to, fine...that's your choice and you're responsible for it.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0816300321/o/qid=976854467/sr=2-2/107-1877872-8061304

[faustgfx]

god won't get you a nice girl though.

or a boy for that matter.

and loving god or jesus or whatever..

well if you like to love someone who has millions of lovers already........

or rather, if you wish to love something that doesn't exist, i'm not stopping you, but i also can't force myself to take you seriously.

religion is just a temporary escape on a much wider scale.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected] /
icq#35983387