[balistic]

Gravity is a theory too, but your ass is firmly in your chair ain't it?

Theory doesn't mean "random guess". A theory is only one step down from a law or a principle. Theory is observable, repeatable, but for one reason or another, not /completely/ understandable with current experiments or methodology.

If evolution /doesn't/ happen, then the thousands of miles of DNA chains in your body are a pretty stupid waste of space and cellular energy.

Lotor: learn some basic science before trying to dispute it. You'll look less ignorant.

"Creationists are often the best evidence that man evolved from primates" - unknown

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Brian "balistic" Prince
3D Artist
Eggington Productions

[This message has been edited by balistic (edited October 16, 2000).]

[nightmare]

i dunno, maybe i'm mentally incapacitated, but i thought that the world is millions of years old. in fact, its several hundred billion years old. just because the world is very young according to the universe doesn't mean it ceases to be several hundred billion years old.

thats like saying i'm not 15 years old because im actually much younger according to that mountain over there. :P

and evolution doesn't occur when animals "turn into" things!! they mutate and the ones that aren't adapted properly will die off, leaving only the most suitable to breed. u shouldn't dispel the theory of evolution just because cats haven't turned into dogs yet. cats have no use for turning into dogs. evolution is not something that people can force on animals. its supposed to happen by itself, which is y it hasn't helped domestic animals in the least. who says that gorillas and humans aren't the same animal. house cats and tigers are basically the same, yet u would never confuse one for the other. the same with humans and gorillas.

[This message has been edited by nightmare (edited October 16, 2000).]

[balistic]

Current estimates for the age of the universe peg it at between eleven and thirteen billion years old. I believe the oldest known rock on Earth is aged about five billion years.

The age of the universe is usually calculated by dating pulsars, which are the most distant (and therefore oldest) stellar bodies we can detect.




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Brian "balistic" Prince
3D Artist
Eggington Productions

[Impaler]

Right on. Balistic knows his theoretical astrophysics.

This has been by far one of my favorite threads of all time. Right up there with Fred's cubes and faust|gfx' flamewars. All the yoomy intellectuality.


And hell. A mutated gnat is still a gnat, but by the same measure, we're still stinking primates. Even further, we're just piles of organic material stirred with amino acids. Same as the slime we and the gnats came from.



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My signature is slightly better than yours.

[aquamire]

Holey missing link turds! I somehow forgot I even posted this! I havent been around much lately, and when I have, I havent been going to the random musings section. I guess I sparked a controversy or something.

Allright, now, I'm a pretty open minded person when it comes to science and religion. Never been a very religious person, I think I've gone to church twice in my lifespan. However, when it comes down to evolution vs. creationism, I believe both ideas are as stupid as the other. Meaning, either are possible in my book, I cant prove or disprove either. For all I know all this is a dream!

Anywho, read this: http://www.discover.com/oct_00/featworld.html

It has a short tidbit on the carter prediction , as well as some heart warming apocalypse stuff.

I'll have to spend some time thinking about everything else thats been posted here.. this forum is filled with intelligent people, and it's great to see that. There seems to be a lack of them these days..




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/Aq
[email protected]

I'd put my wittiest remark here, but I'd scare you.

[lotor]

Ballistic: Pulsars and the time it takes the radiation waves to reach us as a means to dating our universe. But you fail to mention that time moves faster and slower in certain parts of our universe. You probably already knew that and just forgot to mention that.

Scientists don't have an acurate way to tell how old a rock is. If you bring up carbon dating as a means to this then you don't understand how poor cardon dating is. When someone brings a rock in to be carbon dated the carbon daters ask the person who found the rock lots of questions about how old they think the rock is? and where did they find it? and was the rock found near an active volcanic area? They do this because they have dated rocks formed within a years time to be sveral million years old.

I would just like to ask one question here. WHO THE HECK SAID ANYTHING ABOUT CREATION SCIENCE???????????????

I know I didn't. You know there are several million scientists that don't believe in evolution. And that is based solely on the evidence that science has shown them. It had nothing to do with a religious belief.

You see this is what I find most laughable. When someone says that they want to believe in "real and proven" science.(which means they don't believe in evolution) They automatically get labeled as a religious fanatic.

I never said anything about religion, YOU DID. Don't you see you are judging me before you have all the data, or facts, just as you do with evolution.


I can't belive how much of a jerk Ballistic is being saying "Lotor: learn some basic science before trying to dispute it. You'll look less ignorant."
Now I can understand it ballistic was having a bad day or was caught up in the passion of a heated science debate but he did make two mistakes in that statement. (1) that I don't know basic science. and (2) that I was even debating science. I am using science to debate a theory that is claiming to be truth.

I'll type more later after ballistic and his cronies make other hollow claims to me being an imbecile.
Have a good one.

[balistic]

"Ballistic: Pulsars and the time it takes the radiation waves to reach us as a means to dating our universe. But you fail to mention that time moves faster and slower in certain parts of our universe. You probably already knew that and just forgot to mention that."

Cripes, you're sounding like John Boatwright.

"Scientists don't have an acurate way to tell how old a rock is. If you bring up carbon dating as a means to this then you don't understand how poor cardon dating is. When someone brings a rock in to be carbon dated the carbon daters ask the person who found the rock lots of questions about how old they think the rock is? and where did they find it? and was the rock found near an active volcanic area? They do this because they have dated rocks formed within a years time to be sveral million years old."

Carbon decay is only one way of dating things. There are countless methods of dating planetary bodies, such as plotting crater distribution and erosion. For example, by examining the uniform cratering on Venus, scientists can tell that the entire surface of that planet is covered completely by lava every two million years and wiped clean of impact evidence.

"I know I didn't. You know there are several million scientists that don't believe in evolution. And that is based solely on the evidence that science has shown them. It had nothing to do with a religious belief."

I guess it doesn't take much to call yourself a scientist these days. I want to see the list with a million names plus references please.

What alternative to evolution are you posing if not creation?

"I'll type more later after ballistic and his cronies make other hollow claims to me being an imbecile. "

That's alright, you're doing a fine job of that on your own.

Read up before you spout off:
http://www.talkorigins.org

Rather than engaging in arguments that have been initiated thousands of times over, just take a look at that site.




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Brian "balistic" Prince
3D Artist
Eggington Productions

[Count Zero]

Lotor sounds like a die-hard scepticist? Or a nihilist, perhaps?
Please back up your statement of the lack of evolution with SOMETHING. So far, you've only talked about how evolution is NOT true. So, I repeat, where the fuck did all of us come from?
Just answer me this, I'm curious...


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[balistic]

Not to beat a dead horse, but:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

contains dozens of examples of observed speciation. Skip down to section 5 for the cool stuff.



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Brian "balistic" Prince
3D Artist
Eggington Productions

[Rinaldo]

I think that Hawking, even tho briliant is missing the point. We have enough crap pointing to highly probably and uncontrolable elimenation of the human race. why bother with some theory.
Shut up and get on with the space ships. We're about to run out of fuel. we're making our own habitat dangerious to live in (not to mention that we're making ourselves weaker) and we're still trynig to kill each other.
I mean come on, What chance is there. people often have the asumption that becase somehting has had a past it is garanteed a future. the opposite is true. WE have a painfully small window of existance. a few degrees up or down and we're screwed. The planet's not tho. It is part of the human condition to think that we are the be all and end all of everything. We are not fucking up nature. Nature is pretty much invincible.

It would be good if everyone could maybe clarify waht their version of evolution is. Seems to be some confusion.
And yes evolution just like every other idea concived by anything anywhere; pure speculation based upon our frail consensuial reality. It serves it's purpose for now so people let it be.

[Silico]

So what if we die? "Die" shouldn't be taken so seriously...

[Count Zero]

I'm not so worried about all the humans dying as such, I'm worried about us being forgotten. I would like to believe that once we are gone, there would be something left behind for someone to find later on. Proof of our existance. I dislike the feeling that once we are gone, we are forgotten...
Aagh, I suck at expressing myself, but you get my drift right?

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[Nex]

there is. The voyager sattelite with this neat golden plate attached to it

[Count Zero]

Yeah, I know that.
And their making inscribing a huge amount of data onto a copper(?) disc, in microscopic size.
But it lacks... warmth...
Ahh, fuck it. :|

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[Silico]

i get what you're saying, Count Zero!!

sometimes i wonder, are we the best?? i always hear stuff like, ohhh man the human race is SO pathetic and blah blah blah... what are we comparing ourselves to? people always say we fight over the stupidest things, yeah i agree humans vs humans isn't very cool, but without wars we would be set back quite some time. it's because of wars we have so much technology today.

i dunno, it's up to you whether you want to believe we suck or not but i think people are pretty cool.

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`~*Silico

[Ian]

lots of ppl say that humans are far behind in technology. FAR BEHIND WHAT? Some ancient shaman race of aliens with ships and technology going out the wazoo? This is my idea. That maybe, just maybe, WE are the shaman race...and our job is to spread humanity throughout the universe, gradually over billions of years, humans living in different parts of the universe will diversify and change, and it'll be like star trek with all the different aliens that look basically human. I think THAT is how it will all happen. (some people think that spreading humans throughout the cosmos could be a big mistake...like "eww you wanna spread that shit, they just fuck everything up..." oh well, i think it is our legacy to spread conciousness (spelling...)
ian

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One man's hill is another man's mountain.