[Cos]

ok I know these are shameful. I really never do enviromentals so I thought I'd try do some, here are some quick sketchy attempts. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Please rip me to shreds, I must get better!

[Sedone]

These are neat, Cos. I'm still trying to get better at layouts, too, so I'll let the experts give you a critique. I like 'em, tho.

[Francis]

Hi cos -

I have a few comments, and please don't take any offense. I am glad to see you trying some different stuff (although I guess you could be doing this all the time, for all I know), and I want to share some stuff I've figured out over the years.

Come up with the concept first - this drawing doesn't have to be very polished, and in fact should be really loose and sketchy. I probably make ten drawings like this one for every "finished" concept drawing I hand over to production. You aren't really interested in a lot of detail at this point. Because you're DESIGNING an environment, you are first and foremost interested in communicating the sense of the space and the objects within that space.

What I've tried to do here is to rely on perspective as much as I can to accomplish that. This drawing (although it may be difficult to see this in its extreme scratchitude) has three vanishing points - one somewhere in the middle of the image, one to the extreme right (as in waaay off the page) and the third waaay up off the top of the page. Now, I dashed this sketch off in kind of a hurry, so please excuse me if the drawing doesn't exactly work out perspective-wise. If you pay a lot of attention to setting up your perspectives in a convincing manner (ahem), half the battle is won.

In your first drawing, you've set up a good single point perspective, but I have a feeling you may have gotten to the detail stage before you completely had the space laid out on the page - some of your lines don't converge to the same vanishing point.

My opinion on single point perspective drawings is that they are a good way to delineate a space, but it's not really the most natural way. Think about it - in order to truly see a space this way, you'd have to be standing exactly in the center of the space, with your head locked into a position that is exactly perpendicular to the back wall. Unlikely to happen in real life.

It's a little more work, but if you set up your sketch so that you have a few more vanishing points, you will have a more spontaneous, dynamic composition. It's actually more reliable in the long run - there are more visual cues telling the viewer where stuff is in relation to each other. If you only have one vanishing point, that v.p. is carrying ALL the weight in terms of communicating the nature of the space.

Okay, that was really verbose, but I hope that made a little bit of sense.



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TeamGT Studios

[Mr Weasel]

Kewl, reminds me of Star Trek.
Beam me up Scottie !

[freddy flicks stones]

Ten drawings. Try the first time.. Too modest. No he really does prep for his final sketvh, I know, i steal them and sell them on ebay for phat cash.
Francis, didn't you work on a star trek project?
If you could, can you give a little advice on the greeblies. When to, and not too, and when too much is, well just too much. Phil and I were having this discussion over your table tonight at work. He loves the sketches you do because they aresimple, effective, and just too damn good. He claims it takes him too long to get to the finish that you have. I told him, and he knows, he over works the greeblies. Too many in too many places.

So again, to address the question, what about those damn greeblies in the concepting? Have you some sound advice for all to know?
Tahnk you, and do you still have that football helmet?

[Francis]

I think I did work on a Star Trek thing, now that you mention it...

In another post somewhere, Craig was talking about contrasts, light vs. dark, hard edge vs. soft, etc. I think it's sort of the same thing with "greeblies." In my experience, they're rarely specific enough that modellers (or whoever) are using them as reference to fill in detail. On the Star Trek stuff, I had greeblies in my concept stuff, but it was as if the production guys (not to bag on them at all, they're terrific at what they do) looked at my greeblies and saw "insert greeblies here," and they'd go use their own greebly references.

But getting back on topic, a lot can be implied - often I just literally scribble in detail in places that I know will not be a focal point in the drawing. In fact, adding too much detail/greebs can counteract your composition.

Help, I'm in professor mode - get me out!!

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TeamGT Studios

[freddy flicks stones]

it's good for your soul, sole, sohle...anyhow, get use to it, I don't think it will be stopping here....


How about that football helmet...Just one Van Halen tune, like Ice Cream Man or Mean Street...Pleeaassee...by the way the pictures behind Mick's head look great, you know the one you grand "Canyon" lover...

[Wildkat]

Cos, the new environment layouts look great!

the teleporter room is incredible.... I love the vastness and the detailing, it leaves you wanting more, Keep it up!

[Lange_Pisang]

Cos,

great drawings! I like the details very much! You have a great imagination to draw all sort of different wires and machinery thingies!

-I would like to know how long it took...hmm?

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awwwwww...still have to learn a lot,
-Lange Pisang (Long Banana :D)

[Frost]

"Greeblies"?

[Fred Flick Stone]

Greeblies is a hollywood term for details, ornamentation, the little stuff all over the big stuff...

[WacoMonkey]

That's a good start, Cos... If I can add my two cents to my compatriots above...The way to create a really interesting environmental space is to concentrate on the form. Start by building interesting shapes out of the room, some ins and outs, alcoves, columns...Build some three dimensional space into your environment that makes it interesting even before the detail is added. What you've created is a square room with textured walls and some embedded furniture. The reason I think you've 'over-greeblied' the space is because you don't actually have a design there, so you're relying on textural detail to give it interest. To design an interesting space you need to use it.

Start by creating simple forms as in Francis' sketch above. Even his space is a simple square floor plan, but note that he's developed the design by giving the walls some cross-section, creating an interesting extrusion. This is a common approach in sci-fi film design (note the hallways in Aliens). If you've developed more form in the room, chose a vantage point for your image that places the camera behind some foreground element, or just at the edge of an alcove. This will lend the environment depth.

Sorry I'm not posting any helpful sketches, but as Freddy tactfully posted earlier, this knob hasn't gotten around to putting together a website yet, something I hope to remedy soon....

Hope that helps...

Phil.

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[Cos]

Thanks for your feedback everyone!

Francis thanks a lot for your feedback and advice, These are really the first "only" enviromental sketches I've attemted so I just kinda rushed into em without thinking enough about the design and perspectives, I tend to rely on the greeblies way too much hehe. The teleporter was inspired by the concept piece you did for the Star trek game btw The set up in your sketch is a super improvement man, I see now it's about the dimension and depth and design, not greeblies cos heh =P. I'm not good with vanishing points etc, so I'll have to start working on that. Altho I do own a copy of How to draw comics the marvel way =P I'll hunt that down. I understand what you mean about the single point perspective tho, to have it exact on like that means your eye level is spot on centre of the room, which would be unlikely, I didn't even think about that before. Thanks man!

Lange_Pisang it probably took too long for what it is hehe =)

Phil yea I totally agree with you, I tend just to fill a whole shape with greeblies stead of working on the actual design of it. I think I have to start thinking much more
about it, see a lot of them actually start from doodling and get worked into so it just turns out like that. *turns thinking cap on and hopes it still works* =p

"Greeblies" my word of the week hehe

[kos.mandis]

Looks great! It has a really dark(!) atmorphere too!
The only thing I'd advise is to use a bit more perspective correction